atheists go to heaven: the Pope

christiefan915 said:
More on atheism.

Although Pope Francis did make statements in 2013 that were widely received as atypically inclusive of nonbelievers, he did not completely discount the necessity for a belief in God.

In December 2014, an image of Pope Francis was circulated via social media, with a strike quote appended to it suggesting that the pontiff had said “It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person”:
francisgod.jpg


The quote was deemed plausible by many Facebook users (who subsequently shared it) due in part because Pope Francis has been both inclusive and non-judgmental in his commentary thus far regarding faith, morality, and good deeds. The heavily-circulated quote also read to many as a natural extension of what was widely viewed as partial acceptance of atheism by Pope Francis during a May 2013 homily: back then, Pope Francis’ words were interpreted by some to mean atheists could achieve redemption through good deeds without belief in God, while others inferred the comments merely referenced corporeal time on Earth and cooperation towards peace:

“The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: We will meet one another there.”


​
Following Pope Francis’ homily, Fr. Thomas Rosica (a Vatican spokesperson who specializes in translating the Pope’s remarks for English-speaking Catholics and the media) issued a clarification stating the homily’s content was not intended to suggest belief in God was immaterial to salvation:

This means that all salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body. Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church but sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, try to do his will as it is known through the dictates of conscience can attain eternal salvation.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pope-francis-belief-in-god/

​
Click to expand...

Again, Jesus, in the judgment in Matthew 25, says nothing about belief or faith. It's all about how we treat each other.
 
rjhenn said:
Again, Jesus, in the judgment in Matthew 25, says nothing about belief or faith. It's all about how we treat each other.
Click to expand...

Matthew 25 is describing 2 groups. The hypocrites who SAID they believed in Jesus but, their lack of love to others showed that they did not really ever love Him and were not truly Believers.
The other group who were made righteous by their true faith and showed their acts of kindness as a result of a changed heart were welcomed into eternal life.
 
I'm on fire today, Rana:

-Reminded everyone of how defending the CSA/monuments is un-American and an endorsement of slavery
-Argued in support of the right to life and actual marriage
-Bashed the British State for banning single-use plastics, and had some fun antagonizing Tom
-Weighed-in on people's hatred of IHA, Yurt, and Darla
 
Threedee said:
I'm on fire today, Rana:

-Reminded everyone of how defending the CSA/monuments is un-American and an endorsement of slavery
-Argued in support of the right to life and actual marriage
-Bashed the British State for banning single-use plastics, and had some fun antagonizing Tom
-Weighed-in on people's hatred of IHA, Yurt, and Darla
Click to expand...
My, you have been very busy today
 
S #248
For those who believe, no proof is needed.
For those who do not, no proof will suffice.

"The gullible need no proof. The promise is enough. It's only the rational who need proof." rjhenn
Click to expand...
OK rjhenn,
there's self-righteousness on both sides.

Your own prejudice is reflected on your choice of the word "gullible", which means:

gullible (gùl´e-bel) adjective
Easily deceived or duped. *

[From gull2.]
- gul´libil´ity noun
- gul´libly adverb

At least in some cases, that's probably a misrepresentation.

Faith means belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
ABSOLUTELY gullibility would explain it. BUT !! Personal preference also explains it; it's a choice, not a mental impairment.

It is a choice apparently you & I do not share.
But I think it's self-serving & derisive of agnostics / atheists to mischaracterize it. When we have a valid case to make, AND WE DO !! meticulous honesty and accuracy is our only best course.

Misrepresenting them only exposes our own argument & reason to exposure.

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
 
Stretch said:
The pope has no authority as to salvation. He's a sinner the same as you and I, in need of forgiveness.
Only Christ forgives.

*********

What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. As it is written:

“There is no one righteous,

not even one;

There is no one who understands;

no one who seeks God.

All have turned away;

they have together become worthless;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.

Their throats are open graves;

their tongues practice deceit;

the venom of vipers is on their lips;

their mouths are full of cursing and of bitterness;

their feet are swift to shed blood;

ruin and misery lie in their wake;

and the way of peace they have not known;

there is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

God presented Him as an atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Rom 3:9-28
Click to expand...

Which, again, is in direct conflict with Matthew 25.
 
countryboy said:
No, he means THE definition. Just like we don't let you idiot racists decide what racism is, we don't let you define words either. ;)
Click to expand...
Who gets to define marriage? Shall we still force women or men into marriages because of alliances with families? Should girls be forced to marry as soon as they start their periods?
 
sear said:
OK rjhenn,
there's self-righteousness on both sides.

Your own prejudice is reflected on your choice of the word "gullible", which means:

gullible (gùl´e-bel) adjective
Easily deceived or duped. *

[From gull2.]
- gul´libil´ity noun
- gul´libly adverb

At least in some cases, that's probably a misrepresentation.

Faith means belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
ABSOLUTELY gullibility would explain it. BUT !! Personal preference also explains it; it's a choice, not a mental impairment.

It is a choice apparently you & I do not share.
But I think it's self-serving & derisive of agnostics / atheists to mischaracterize it. When we have a valid case to make, AND WE DO !! meticulous honesty and accuracy is our only best course.

Misrepresenting them only exposes our own argument & reason to exposure.

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.
Click to expand...

brain studies have found a certain brain wiring for god beliefs


it may not actually be a choice
 
rjhenn said:
Which, again, is in direct conflict with Matthew 25.
Click to expand...

No contradiction at all.

Matthew 25 is describing 2 groups. The hypocrites who SAID they believed in Jesus but, their lack of love to others showed that they did not really ever love Him and were not truly Believers.
The other group who were made righteous by their true faith and showed their acts of kindness as a result of a changed heart were welcomed into eternal life.
 
guno said:
speak for yourself goyim , original sin is a christstain invention


This is a Christian belief based on Paul’s statement, “Therefore just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). The doctrine was fully developed by the church father, Augustine of Hippo (354-430).

According to this doctrine, hereditary sinfulness is inescapably transmitted to human beings by their parents, starting with Adam and Eve. It is alleged that only acceptance of Jesus as savior from sin can redeem a person from sin. All those who do not accept Jesus as their savior from sin are condemned to eternal suffering in hell.

Whether man is a sinner by nature or not is immaterial. Judaism teaches the biblical way to repentance and reconciliation with God. Sincere repentance in which the sinner pledges to rectify his sinful ways and lead a righteous life is one means that is open at all times to all of humanity (Jonah 3:5-10, Daniel 4:27). God counsels Cain, “Why are you annoyed, and why has your countenance fallen? If you do good [that is, change your ways], will it not be lifted up [that is, you will be forgiven]. But if you do not do good, sin rests at the door; and it desires you, but you may rule over it” (Genesis 4:6-7). God informs Cain that repentance and subsequent forgiveness are always open to him. The remedy for sin is clear. Biblically, God’s loving-kindness depends on right conduct and extends to all humanity.


The term “original sin” is unknown to the Jewish Scriptures, and the Church’s teachings on this doctrine are antithetical to the core principles of the Torah and its prophets.

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledg...jews-believe-in-the-doctrine-of-original-sin/


The dumb goyim will believe anything
Click to expand...

Then there's Deuteronomy 24:16 (NIV) "Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin." which directly refutes the concept of original sin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top