Apple; Do YOU trust the government- ANY government ?

SmarterthanYou said:
to do that, apple would have to create a key that opens ALL of their phones and give it to the FBI. do YOU want the FBI to have that kind of key for ALL iphones? do YOU believe, for even a second, that the FBI wouldn't use that key ANY TIME they wanted to in order to search a phone?
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It's more than just creating a key.

The FBI is actually seeking a weakened version of iOS be developed for them to use, ostensibly, on this one phone.

As I'd noted earlier, I don't think anyone believes the FBI wouldn't immediately get into that newly-developed iOS and use it ad voluntatem.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
to do that, apple would have to create a key that opens ALL of their phones and give it to the FBI. do YOU want the FBI to have that kind of key for ALL iphones? do YOU believe, for even a second, that the FBI wouldn't use that key ANY TIME they wanted to in order to search a phone?
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It would be inconceivable they don't already have the keys to open any of the phones they sell....thats defies logic....they engineered the thing.....
.....they can open the phone in question, retrieve the data, surrender the data to the FBI and throw away the key....they can go to court and certainly win if Obama demands a way to break into any phone at will..........or wait until
a Republican is in office and they won't even be asked for a master key to all phones....
 
NOVA said:
It would be inconceivable they don't already have the keys to open any of the phones they sell....thats defies logic....they engineered the thing.....
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engineered with a customers privacy in mind, therefore they made no key.

NOVA said:
.....they can open the phone in question, retrieve the data, surrender the data to the FBI and throw away the key....they can go to court and certainly win if Obama demands a way to break into any phone at will..........or wait until
a Republican is in office and they won't even be asked for a master key to all phones....
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doesn't work like that.
 
Here is what the gov. is asking Apple to do...

Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., is working with Vice Chairman Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on legislation that would compel tech companies to provide encrypted data to law enforcement agencies.

This demand should be limited to only the phones that are used by terrorists.....by law....

If Apple can comply, concerning this one particular phone...THEY should retrieve the data, not the gov. and give it to the FBI.....but under no circumstances should they give the gov. the ability to break the encryption on other phones.....this protects the rights of every phone owner and fights terrorism at the same time....

If they don't have the ability to comply, case closed....the gov. has no right to unfettered access....of phones, emails, or anything else en mass....without probable cause....

In this case, concerning ONE PHONE, they have probable cause ......a compromise should be reached..

If the intelligence they wanted concerned a bomb in you kid's school, you'd see the light.....
 
NOVA said:
If the intelligence they wanted concerned a bomb in you kid's school, you'd see the light.....
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do not even begin to think that this would be the case. you're talking to someone whos kid died from a drug overdose and I STILL believe that the feds have no control over marijuana. it's that kind of fear mongering that causes you weak assed majority to surrender everyone elses rights to make you feel safe.
 
NOVA said:
Here is what the gov. is asking Apple to do...

Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, R-N.C., is working with Vice Chairman Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., on legislation that would compel tech companies to provide encrypted data to law enforcement agencies.

This demand should be limited to only the phones that are used by terrorists.....by law....

If Apple can comply, concerning this one particular phone...THEY should retrieve the data, not the gov. and give it to the FBI.....but under no circumstances should they give the gov. the ability to break the encryption on other phones.....this protects the rights of every phone owner and fights terrorism at the same time....

If they don't have the ability to comply, case closed....the gov. has no right to unfettered access....of phones, emails, or anything else en mass....without probable cause....

In this case, concerning ONE PHONE, they have probable cause ......a compromise should be reached..

If the intelligence they wanted concerned a bomb in you kid's school, you'd see the light.....
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The issue is a simple one, if you want to look at it with the "ONE PHONE" angle: It wouldn't be.

What you quoted is a bill that is being written, it is not the court order in this case.

The FBI is seeking the creation of specific software (a weakened operating system) that they could then use to update the phone, and break into it that way.

With that weakened operating system, they could then use it on any phone. That's the issue.

Even Apple can't break into someone else's iPhone when this particular encryption option is activated. They don't have a way to do this internally, and the FBI doesn't want them to do it internally.

Again, the FBI wants Apple to create a new, security-weakend iOS that could be used on any iPhone and which, if it leaked, would have the potential to compromise the security of every iPhone on the planet. Terrorist-used or not.

They say that they would only use it on this particular phone, but as I've asked before, is anyone naive enough to believe that's the truth?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
do not even begin to think that this would be the case. you're talking to someone whos kid died from a drug overdose and I STILL believe that the feds have no control over marijuana. it's that kind of fear mongering that causes you weak assed majority to surrender everyone elses rights to make you feel safe.
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We're not talking about everyone else's rights.....only one phone, owed by one terrorist....sorry about you child but the analogy don't fit this scenario...

unless you want to consider that if someones cracked phone could have saved your child's life, you might feel differently.....

The Feds have no control over drugs....liberals want it that way....
I repeat....
If Apple can comply, concerning this one particular phone...THEY should retrieve the data, not the gov. and give it to the FBI.....but under no circumstances should they give the gov. the ability to break the encryption on other phones.....this protects the rights of every phone owner and fights terrorism at the same time....

anyway.....
Technically, it would not require Apple to decrypt the passcode that blocks access by outsiders to the iPhone. It would allow the government to try an unlimited number of passwords without fear of the phone erasing all of its stored information.

In electronic security parlance, that is what is called a “brute force” attack, and all it takes is time and patience to submit a large number of passcodes. Brute force attacks are usually carried out with the assistance of a powerful computer, which can automatically input millions of different password combinations until it guesses the correct one.

This would not be the way to go imo.....but if Apple can supply even this kind of software, its only a matter of time until someone else writes a similar program.....

Again, sorry for your loss
 
Stelakh said:
The issue is a simple one, if you want to look at it with the "ONE PHONE" angle: It wouldn't be.

What you quoted is a bill that is being written, it is not the court order in this case.

The FBI is seeking the creation of specific software (a weakened operating system) that they could then use to update the phone, and break into it that way.

With that weakened operating system, they could then use it on any phone. That's the issue.

Even Apple can't break into someone else's iPhone when this particular encryption option is activated. They don't have a way to do this internally, and the FBI doesn't want them to do it internally.

Again, the FBI wants Apple to create a new, security-weakend iOS that could be used on any iPhone and which, if it leaked, would have the potential to compromise the security of every iPhone on the planet. Terrorist-used or not.

They say that they would only use it on this particular phone, but as I've asked before, is anyone naive enough to believe that's the truth?
Click to expand...

If Apple can comply, concerning this one particular phone...THEY should retrieve the data, not the gov. and give it to the FBI.....

but under no circumstances should they give the gov. the ability to break the encryption on other phones.....
Including a weakened iOS.....


Who the hell do your want to be responsible for the security or insecurity of the US and its citizens.....the gov. or Apple ?
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35568692

Syria conflict: Pressure grows on Russia over civilian bomb deaths

"Pressure is increasing on Russia over civilian deaths in Syria, with France and the US urging greater caution. French PM Manuel Valls and US Secretary of State John Kerry said civilians were dying in Russian air strikes. Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev said there was "no evidence of our bombing civilians, even though everyone is accusing us of this". One observers' group says at least 1,015 civilians have been killed in Russian air strikes. The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said late last month that close to a quarter of those killed were under the age of 18."
 
http://www.timesofisrael.com/nasrallah-threatens-to-bomb-chemical-plants-kill-thousands-of-israelis/

Nasrallah threatens to bomb chemical facility, kill thousands of Israelis

Head of Lebanese terror group says strike on Haifa amonia storage facility would have impact similar to nuclear attack

"Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah on Tuesday insisted that although his group isn’t currently seeking war with Israel, it could defeat the Jewish state in a future conflict by targeting Haifa’s ammonia storage tanks, resulting in massive fatalities. Dismissing recent reports of a possible outbreak of hostilities with Israel, Nasrallah said deterrence established by the terror organization in the first and second Lebanon wars was keeping Israeli aggression at bay."
 
Transwarpdrivel ( above )- as well as being a repugnant, mindless and sadistic potty-mouth- also doubles as a thread spammer. Figures. Every forum bears a burden.

Thread-block him ? Nah, give him more rope.
 
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evince said:
mass murder


that mean mass criminal acts idiot
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secure encryption is an integral part of our daily lives now to the point where it is simply not possible to have a functioning society without it. Want to do banking transactions with your phone? store your credit card numbers? Have information about your health and medical records private? You simply cannot have these things if APPLE were to develop a backdoor for the feds. Even if the feds weren't nefarious it WOULD get out and it would be be hacked eventually and then EVERYONE is FUCKED. It is simply a practical impossibility. When we invented regular phones, terrorists could all of a sudden call each other and more efficiently plan attacks rather than writing letters by snail mail. With the invention of the car, terrorists can now quickly roll up with an rpg and make an escape in a vehicle.

We don't purge ourselves of modern technological process due to fear mongering. Encryption is here to stay, period.
 
I do not see how the 4th is compromised by going into the phone. This is not a general warrant -it's specific to one phone
 
Apple is claiming they'd hav to develope special software to open this one phone. If this is true, then Apple should be protected- if they are being dishonest the Feds have to prove that they are. If the Feds do prove this, then Apple is in some serious trouble.
 
NOVA said:
If Apple can comply, concerning this one particular phone...THEY should retrieve the data, not the gov. and give it to the FBI.....

but under no circumstances should they give the gov. the ability to break the encryption on other phones.....
Including a weakened iOS.....


Who the hell do your want to be responsible for the security or insecurity of the US and its citizens.....the gov. or Apple ?
Click to expand...

Considering the government uses the FISC in order to tear down the rights guaranteed by the Constitution?

While the quote has been often mangled beyond recognition from its original, and almost always attributed to Benjamin Franklin when we don't know if he really is the one who said it first or not, I agree with it:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Now, the source letter this came from wasn't actually talking about Constitutional rights, it was talking about taxes.

But it really does work for the Constitution.

When we give up an essential freedom guaranteed by the Constitution, like the right to privacy or the right to be secure from unlawful search and seizure, we're becoming less American.

And if we hand over our rights to the government, and thus become less American as a result, then it means that those who wish to do us harm have already won because they've turned us into a bigoted, bellicose and perverted monster of what it used to mean to be an American. I don't want them to win.

It seems clear that for you, they already have.
 
J Craft said:
Apple is claiming they'd hav to develope special software to open this one phone. If this is true, then Apple should be protected- if they are being dishonest the Feds have to prove that they are. If the Feds do prove this, then Apple is in some serious trouble.
Click to expand...

If what Apple says is true, even they can't get into the phone without developing special software to do it, and that's the problem.

They took privacy seriously, and the code that went into the operating system is what would need to be altered to let even Apple in. So yes, they'd have to develop a new operating system with weakened security just to let themselves into the phone, let alone the FBI.

Apple, as much as I despise them as a whole, do take the privacy of their users very seriously, and given their commitment and track record to and on that, I don't see any reason to doubt them when they say they can't get into the phone, either.
 
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