America is losing its religion — and the effects will be long-lasting

[Dutch Uncle]

Got it. We see the world as a European art film.
In today's digital world, obviously, they're actually shot in color and then they just click the gray scale function.
That's what I do when the colors become tasteless.

The Euros have been fucking themselves for centuries. No wonder you like them so much.

 

[Cypress]

Hear, hear.

Your point about the Carters is the perfect illustration of why Xtianity is dying in this country at the hands of the evangelicals. They prefer a faux "strong man" like #TRE45ON, who is as much a Christian as I am a Corvette. They see true Christians like the Carters as weak and puny. It's much the same way that the Romans at first saw Christ -- He was weak and puny compared to their robust, war-like, lusty gods and goddesses.

Nice work and I agree

 

[Cypress]

Hate to disagree, but if a person doesn't believe like a Christian and act like a Christian, how can they be a Christian except in name only?

Therefore, people like PmP and RB 60 are not "bad ambassadors for Christianity" because by their very actions they aren't Christians.

That is a good point! At our most charitable, they might be called phony Christians

 

[RB 60]

You are one of the bad ambassadors for Christianity because you are foul mouthed, you lie, you slander.

Jimmy Carter, my mother, my cousin are good ambassadors for Christianity. I do not mind Pence's faith as long as he does not pass laws forcing women to give birth or legislating the Old Testament.

You need to write a response to what I actually wrote, not what you wish I wrote.
I am on public record noting that there are liberal strains of evangelicalism, including the traditionally black Baptist churches. I have the posts to prove I made that point long before you did.

What I wrote was: that "that strain" of evangelicalism has discredited itself- aka, the evangelical conservatives who prostrate themselves and worship the noted Orange-tinted atheist Donald Trump.

You singled out one denomination of many in one religion. I pointed it out. I also said there were liberal Evangelicals. No other denominations or religions supported Trump? I'd bet there were.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Agreed on the birth rate facts. Opie is always short on facts and long on opinion, so facts are appreciated.

That said, I think you are missing the underlying message of Opie's post, his racist extremism. He thinks that if the Euros don't start having more babies, then all the brown, and, worse in his mind, the black babies will dominate the planet.

What Opie and other narrow-minded people don't understand is that we're all human beings with about 99.5-99.9% genetic commonality. It's the cultures that make the difference, not the genetics.

America became great because it became a melting pot of ideas and cultures. We took the best and made something even better. Now people like Darth, Niblick and others want to break us up, divide the world into zones. That's both idiotic but will eventually fail because that's not how human beings work.

Opie even admitted in his response to me that he pulled the 0.08% number out of his ass.

You're right that I missed the racist sub-text. I was thinking of it in terms of culture rather than color.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Dutch Uncle,

Disagreed on several points. The main one being that the world isn't Black & White. One doesn't have to be a foaming-at-the-mouth "Christian" or a staunch, religion-hating atheist.

There's religious dogma, militant atheism and a panoply of spiritual beliefs in between. Science covers the Natural Universe. Where science conflicts with religious dogma, then science is correct because it's provable.

OTOH, science doesn't cover everything and that is the realm of faith. An atheist who declares that doesn't exist is an example of a person going on faith, not science.



There's a JPP Christian!

If there is anyone in this discussion who does not have hatred in the heart, nor sees the world as black and white, my position is the example of it.

As evidenced by my remark:

"I know that many who no longer belong to organized religion still hold their beliefs. That is their right. It is not for me or any person to say what others should believe."

I firmly believe that hatred is wrong, and it is poisonous to peace of mind.

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.

Hatred violates that. So it is logically best to rid oneself of all hatred.

I don't need a 'good book' to tell me morality. It is entirely based on logic to be moral and love they neighbor and thy enemy. Ye just might wish to keep thy distance from thine enemies... Which is part of why judicious use of the Ignore Feature is a path to peace of mind while posting on JPP!

 

[Cypress]

Where did you get your 0.08% figure for birth rate from? This source almost doubles that number. BTW, Japan's birth rate is roughly the same as Europe's, at 1.42%. They are not Christian or post-Christian.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Fertility_statistics

This Darth claim has all the makings of another 61 post.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello moon,

There will soon be a Latino majority in America- and Latinos tend to be Roman Catholic. Biden is a Roman Catholic and I wonder if religion played a large part in his election. Certainly, crazed Evangelicals supported El Trumpo- so we may well see a future wherein party-lines/religious -lines come to be much the same thing. Very, very strange under a Constitution which separates church and state.

I don't see it going that way. Libertarians who frequently vote conservative often turn out to be atheists, and liberals include a LOT of very religious people, as evidenced by voting drives where buses take people directly from church to the voting polls on Sunday after service.

I am also convinced there are a lot of people who go through all the motions of being religious, but they do not really believe in their hearts. Even within the Roman Catholic Church. How could somebody be a priest and molest children? That's not in the Bible. Are they not afraid of rotting in hell for all eternity?

I always liked that very tasteless joke:

(And please forgive me if you find this one offensive)

Q: How do you get a nun pregnant?

A: Dress her up like an altar boy.

It wouldn't be funny if it were not so close to the truth.

 

[Cypress]

You singled out one denomination of many in one religion. I pointed it out. I also said there were liberal Evangelicals. No other denominations or religions supported Trump? I'd bet there were.

I accept your tacit admission that I did not single out evangelicalism as a monolithic block.

I accept your unspoken but tacit confession that your disgustingly foul-mouthed post demonstrates a pervasive aversion to acceptable Christian behavior.

I am not going to write a tome on all the brands of Protestantism, Catholicism, Judaism having bad amabssasors for their faith. America is the most Protestant nation on earth, and evangelicalism is the most dominant strain of American Protestantism at this time. That was my example I chose to use.

 

[Mason Melchizedek]

Yep. People in groups are far more dangerous than individuals.

Organized religion has little to do with God

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Opie even admitted in his response to me that he pulled the 0.08% number out of his ass.

You're right that I missed the racist sub-text. I was thinking of it in terms of culture rather than color.

Thanks for the clarification on 0.08% number. It's origin figures. <-- pun intended.

Culture is exactly how we should see it. However, as Darth posted, many of the RWers see it racially which, of course, goes against all Christian ideology. They're as Christian as the Spanish Inquisition and the Ku Klux Klan.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello ThatOwlWoman,

Hear, hear.

Your point about the Carters is the perfect illustration of why Xtianity is dying in this country at the hands of the evangelicals. They prefer a faux "strong man" like #TRE45ON, who is as much a Christian as I am a Corvette. They see true Christians like the Carters as weak and puny. It's much the same way that the Romans at first saw Christ -- He was weak and puny compared to their robust, war-like, lusty gods and goddesses.

Totally true and agreed. I don't get that the figure painted in the Bible of Jesus was a strong man with a big ego like Trump or Reagan. Much more a moral man like Jimmy Carter.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This Darth claim has all the makings of another 61 post.

Darth tends to live in an alternate reality. Quite fascinating sometimes.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Mason?,

Organized religion has little to do with God

Yeah, I don't get that. If religion is a personal thing, a relationship between an individual and the creator/overseer entity, then why does it need to be practiced in groups?

Does that make believing easier? And if so, then does that mean many within a congregation are fighting doubts? If they are certain of their beliefs then why would that need reaffirming in groups?

It certainly seems easier to believe and indoctrinate others into belief if there is all this institutionalization of it. But must others be drawn into it if it is a personal relationship?

If one is deprived of the congregation does that weaken the faith or make it less effective?

Safety in numbers, I suppose.

I think it takes guts and ultimate honesty to declare and embrace atheism. There is not going to be any group support for that. Individuals do this strictly on their own.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Hello Dutch Uncle,
If there is anyone in this discussion who does not have hatred in the heart, nor sees the world as black and white, my position is the example of it.

As evidenced by my remark:

"I know that many who no longer belong to organized religion still hold their beliefs. That is their right. It is not for me or any person to say what others should believe."

I firmly believe that hatred is wrong, and it is poisonous to peace of mind.

The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time.

Hatred violates that. So it is logically best to rid oneself of all hatred.

I don't need a 'good book' to tell me morality. It is entirely based on logic to be moral and love they neighbor and thy enemy. Ye just might wish to keep thy distance from thine enemies... Which is part of why judicious use of the Ignore Feature is a path to peace of mind while posting on JPP!

Disagreed. A person can't say "We should treat everyone equally, even the negroes" and then declare they are being fair, equal and unbiased when called on their racism.

Obviously we're all free to our beliefs and it's only those that push their views onto others, regardless of what those views are, who are crossing the line of civil social behavior.

 

[Cypress]

Hear, hear.

Your point about the Carters is the perfect illustration of why Xtianity is dying in this country at the hands of the evangelicals. They prefer a faux "strong man" like #TRE45ON, who is as much a Christian as I am a Corvette. They see true Christians like the Carters as weak and puny. It's much the same way that the Romans at first saw Christ -- He was weak and puny compared to their robust, war-like, lusty gods and goddesses.

The war-like, "onward Christian soldiers" posture of modern rightwing American evangelical Protestants presumably grew out of the dark recesses of our Puritan past and the "manifest destiny" crusading attitude which blossomed from it. That is my story, and I am sticking with it!

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Totally true and agreed. I don't get that the figure painted in the Bible of Jesus was a strong man with a big ego like Trump or Reagan. Much more a moral man like Jimmy Carter.

He taught compassion, humility, surrender of the human will to the Divine, inclusion. He also practiced these virtues. Many of his modern American followers, however, see these traits as flaws.

 

[Cypress]

Yeah, I don't get that. If religion is a personal thing, a relationship between an individual and the creator/overseer entity, then why does it need to be practiced in groups?

<snip>

A personal relationship with God is strictly a tenet of evangelical Protestantism.

It is not a tenet of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, or to my knowledge mainline Protestants.

In Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism it is ritual, institution, ceremony, and sacrament which mediate the relationship between God and the individual.

 

[Mason Melchizedek]

A personal relationship with God is strictly a tenet of evangelical Protestantism.

It is not a tenet of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, or to my knowledge mainline Protestants.

In Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism it is ritual, institution, ceremony, and sacrament which mediate the relationship between God and the individual.

Most organized churches are social clubs,giving lip service to God

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He taught compassion, humility, surrender of the human will to the Divine, inclusion. He also practiced these virtues. Many of his modern American followers, however, see these traits as flaws.

Agreed with a caveat on the "many". I know a lot of very good people who try to be good Christians unlike the Usual Suspects on JPP.