Allies despair as Trump abandons America's leadership role at a time of global crisis
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
There is a growing amount of fallout against China because of COVID. It will undermine a lot of the progress that China has made. We don't need to go out of our way to attract willing partners in research or trade. Our money speaks for itself.
moon
Satire for Sanity
Make up your mind.
There's no contradiction in that passage. You've glossed over ' under post-war circumstances '.
The survivors of the death-camps were deserving of the world's sympathy. The Zionist ethnic-cleansers who hid behind them were not.
You've been deceived all along.
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
two states, one for the overwhelming Arab majority and one for the small Jewish minority.
You're own words.
NO!!!!!
Sure enough, but that is short term thinking~as is that problem.. Will it be so if there is a second wave?? A new pandemic next year?
You should never, ever underestimate your rival or assume they are thinking on the same short term playing field you are-you would be wrong...
So you say, can you prove it??
Take the growth of the Chinese economy/GDP & compare that to the USA in 5 years, 10 years.......
Much of the growth of the Chinese economy in the last 2 decades has been a result of state spending that is unsustainable. I'm assuming you have heard about the various ghost cities that exist in China. These were created to maintain growth in their construction industry. Since there was no demand for said cities, they are literally just infrastructure being left to rot.
This massive amount of waste and state-driven growth only accomplishes one result in the long run -- debt. It is true that public debt is substantially worse here than in China, but private debt is insanely high in China. While propping up various industries for growth, they also threw an insane amount of loans at their populace for the sake of helping them to consume more. Much of the growth in personal spending by the Chinese was artificially driven by the state as well. The end result is that China has a far worse long term financial outlook than us.
Public debt is easier to resolve than private debt, for various reasons. First, the state has the ability to print money. Second, the state can negate certain debts, if it becomes convenient. Both practices should be done sparingly, but private debt does not have these options. So, in order for China to eventually resolve its private debt, it will likely take generations to pay down.
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
Are you still championing China's socialist economy as better than the U.S.'s free enterprise system, Bill?
good point on the ghost towns -it was all part of the "one belt One road" initiative ( "build it and they will come") but western China ( where most are located) is mostly desert or mountains and I just can't see them being populated.
as to the debt: China has vast surpluses it pumps into the economy as low cost loans,
thru their State Owned Enterprise system (SOE).
So they really aren't going into debt, but risking surpluses to do so
But they had to keeping doing this to keep their GDP artificlally high -with the collapse from COVID it's
impossible to sustain
If you want to talk to me about this you need to stop pulling that, or I am not going to take you seriously..
I am presenting facts, not wishes............. You have something to add other than your opinion I will be glad to read it..
I think your time lines need some updating.
example that: 14 August 2012 Last updated at 00:34
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China's ghost towns and phantom malls
By Robin Banerji & Patrick Jackson
Not long after these towns began showing up in the FAKE NEWS media this also began being talked about, the BRI..
That excess capacity isn't going to build ghost towns in the middle of nowhere any more~ & you know that, if you think about it..
Back in 2013 they had something like 60-70 countries signed up now it's about 100 more countries & that extra capacity is showing up in East Africa, Eastern Europe, Wakistan, Sri Lanka, Laos etc etc etc.......
IMHO we need to be looking forward @ what's coming, not @ the past...
ya. I haven't looked at this in awhile.I think your time lines need some updating.
example that: 14 August 2012 Last updated at 00:34
Share this page
China's ghost towns and phantom malls
By Robin Banerji & Patrick Jackson
Not long after these towns began showing up in the FAKE NEWS media this also began being talked about, the BRI..
That excess capacity isn't going to build ghost towns in the middle of nowhere any more~ & you know that, if you think about it..
Back in 2013 they had something like 60-70 countries signed up now it's about 100 more countries & that extra capacity is showing up in East Africa, Eastern Europe, Wakistan, Sri Lanka, Laos etc etc etc.......
IMHO we need to be looking forward @ what's coming, not @ the past...
I guess there are more then 50 throughout the county -that's a lot of ghosts!
That's a great map BTW it clearly shows the "belt" ringing China
I like it as well but it is a bit out of date as you can add Serbia, Greece & Jamaica & a few others..
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
Whatever, Bill. It was a simple yes or no question. I didn't know it would cause you to meltdown.
I guess it's ok for you to give your opinion on what might happen in 5 or 10 years. Don't give that "I forbade opinions" nazi crap. This is a forum, not an actual News site.
Not a question, you know the answer, it is an implication. I am presenting the facts as I know them-(NOT WHAT I AM WISHING)!!
Prob cause you don't like what you are hearing.
& I don't blame you for that, I don't like it either..
If I am wrong in what I posted pls feel free to correct it........ I am not an expert......
Help us both/all of us out & show me where it's wrong.........
I think your time lines need some updating.
example that: 14 August 2012 Last updated at 00:34
Share this page
China's ghost towns and phantom malls
By Robin Banerji & Patrick Jackson
Not long after these towns began showing up in the FAKE NEWS media this also began being talked about, the BRI..
That excess capacity isn't going to build ghost towns in the middle of nowhere any more~ & you know that, if you think about it..
Back in 2013 they had something like 60-70 countries signed up now it's about 100 more countries & that extra capacity is showing up in East Africa, Eastern Europe, Wakistan, Sri Lanka, Laos etc etc etc.......
IMHO we need to be looking forward @ what's coming, not @ the past...
If China wants to throw money at a lot of countries in the developing world that aren't likely to pay them back, that's their business. We did similar things for several decades with little in return.
As for the more developed countries they make deals with, that's all fine and well, but we do plenty of trade and deals as well.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Is this helping the USA in the long run or our adversaries??
(CNN)The United States has scaled back its role on the world stage, taken actions that are undermining efforts to battle the coronavirus pandemic and left the international community without a traditional global leader, according to experts, diplomats and analysts.
The US -- usually at the head of the table helping to coordinate in global crises -- has declined to take a seat at virtual international meetings convened by the World Health Organization and the European Union to coordinate work on potentially lifesaving vaccines.
Former world leaders warn that the Trump administration risks alienating allies by politicizing the deadly pandemic with its push to punish China and have other nations choose sides.
The administration's decision to halt funding for the WHO, the world body best positioned to coordinate the global response to the raging pandemic, has appalled global health officials.
On Friday the US blocked a vote on a UN Security Council resolution that called for a global ceasefire aimed at collectively assisting a planet devastated by the outbreak. The US did not want any reference to the WHO in the text and rejected a compromise version that didn't directly mention the organization -- and instead cited the UN's "specialized health agencies," according to two diplomats familiar with the process.
The US has similarly blocked expressions of global unity at G7 and G20 meetings due to anger about China and the WHO.
Incredulity and sadness
US officials push back, touting both funding to fight Covid-19 as well as work Trump is doing through the Group of Seven and bilaterally -- leading more than 50 calls with world leaders. But experts say funding without full global coordination can slow overall progress.
And where US presidents have in the past offered a steadying voice, observers from the Asia Pacific to Europe expressed incredulity, amusement and sadness at President Donald Trump's briefings on the virus, saying they are deeply damaging to the US image abroad.
At a time when nearly 4 million people worldwide have been infected with the virus, diplomats say many countries are yearning for the firm US leadership they've seen at historic moments and in prior epidemics, citing President Barack Obama's response to Ebola and President George W. Bush's work on HIV/AIDS.
"They want the US to lean in more," said one European diplomat. "We know they're doing a great deal with countries, including developing countries, bilaterally ... but a lot of countries hanker after the decisive US effort that we saw when the Berlin Wall came down. A lot of countries believe this is one of those pivotal moments in history and the US has always led at those times."
Critics say the Trump administration's approach to the coronavirus hasn't just hampered the fight against the pandemic, it has increased uncertainty, eroded respect for the US and deepened concern that the international system no longer functions effectively.
"The world is looking for global leadership. It's a global problem -- it affects literally everyone on the planet. This is a time when you expect the leaders of superpowers in a very constructive way to help coordinate and structure the response," said Robert Yates, director of the Global Health Program at Chatham House, a British think tank. "One would expect the US to have a leading role in trying to coordinate global efforts. That's been completely lacking."
Global health officials found Trump's move to cut funding for the WHO in the middle of a pandemic "absolutely breathtaking," Yates added. "It's worse than a lack of coordination, it almost seems destructive."
A senior State Department official told reporters Tuesday that the President "has concerns" about the WHO, which Trump has accused of being biased in China's favor. The official repeatedly stressed that the US "is the single largest health and humanitarian donor in the world" and said the US "and President Trump are leading the global effort to combat this pandemic," in part through the US presidency of the G7.
But the machinery of a US-led international response isn't kicking into gear this time, said Gayle Smith, president and CEO of the nonprofit ONE Campaign.
By and large, she noted, "we've not seen the kind of summitry, urgency of meetings at the UN Security Council, heads of state coming together to organize, to figure out how we manage, for example, global supply chains."
Skipped meetings
"Everybody in the world is looking for the same goods. How do we make sure that the global economy stays where it needs to be?" asked Smith, a former administrator of the US Agency for International Development. And while she notes the G7 and G20 have held virtual meetings, "I would very much like to see the United States taking the kind of extra effort to mobilize the world at multiple levels."
US officials say Trump has convened regular virtual meetings with G7 ministers to coordinate assistance to other countries, but the White House has skipped international meetings to coordinate on the hunt for a vaccine, leaving experts disconcerted. One meeting was organized by WHO, while another meeting Monday of more than 40 countries and several organizations raised $8 billion in pledges and yielded a commitment that whoever produces an effective vaccine first will share it with the rest of the world.
The US absence was "really, really unfortunate" said Smith, not just "because the US has historically been a leader," but because the US has a national interest in being part of the group "that is trying to accelerate the development of vaccines and therapeutics, because obviously we're going to need a vaccine here. ... I think it would be wise, and in our interest, to be involved on the ground floor."
Stephen Morrison, director of the Global Health Policy Center at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said, "It's a very crazy and disturbing thing that [the US] would be going its own way and sitting this out. It's the country with the greatest financing capacity, biggest foundational interest, greatest R&D capacity."
More @ source
What do our allies do for us, ..or are you American?
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
The US could go South America only and FUCK Europe and the USSR and China and be just simply hunky-dory.
Matt Dillon
Retardium User
Perhaps certain Europe countries could be acceptable. Probably not the current ones that are, except Switzerland.
(You know how that worked out in Sri Lanka when they couldn't pay them back)??
True, some may fail, they are winging it, working it out as it goes....
Do you think the CCP being everyone's largest trading partner comes w/ any perks??
You know like what they say & can't say, how they vote in the UN, world bodies..
Example our own NBA kowtowing & apologizing for staff criticizing their behavior.......