Advanced Politics; Should Gov Have Power To Do Things We Dont Know About?

In the army both my units were Intelligence Units. I was in a Long Range Surveillance Company with one battalion and a quasi strategic quasi tactical unit in Germany. In both we did things the public never and should have never known anything about. However, at that time, our targets were all foreign and US citizens only became subjects IF they turned up doing stuff with our foreign targets that got them in our sites. Stuff like that, the public does not need to know. Blanket surveillance, hell yes.
 
Threedee said:
I'm along the lines that the basic defense and intelligence programs should be common knowledge while the information and missions themselves should be classified. We should know that F-16s are flying around while not knowing their mission and flight plan details. If the government is going to tap Verizon towers, we shouldn't know which callers they are looking at. That kind of stuff.
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They are looking at all callers, looking for specific information.. and that isn't defense, that is offense..
 
Socrtease said:
In the army both my units were Intelligence Units. I was in a Long Range Surveillance Company with one battalion and a quasi strategic quasi tactical unit in Germany. In both we did things the public never and should have never known anything about. However, at that time, our targets were all foreign and US citizens only became subjects IF they turned up doing stuff with our foreign targets that got them in our sites. Stuff like that, the public does not need to know. Blanket surveillance, hell yes.
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should the manhatten project been part of government transparency? that or difficult diplomatic negotiations.

yes there needs to be oversight, but when congress leak things just so they can feel important, who gets to know what?

oversight is always needed, but those charged with that oversight need to be trustworthy too.

too many classified things can be as bad as not enough classified things.

where do we draw the line? one thing that helps is the requirement that classified information have a periodic classification downgrade date. anything less breeds paranoia and tyranny.
 
Socrtease said:
In the army both my units were Intelligence Units. I was in a Long Range Surveillance Company with one battalion and a quasi strategic quasi tactical unit in Germany. In both we did things the public never and should have never known anything about. However, at that time, our targets were all foreign and US citizens only became subjects IF they turned up doing stuff with our foreign targets that got them in our sites. Stuff like that, the public does not need to know. Blanket surveillance, hell yes.
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Why did the movie "Buffalo Soldier" pop in my head while reading your statement. Maybe because you were stationed in Germany was well as the actors in that movie. And maybe because the movie is all about cover-ups.......as long as it benefits us...
 
The Government was 99% transparent when they said they are going to spy on you...the other 1% was the name that idiots would fall for.

What is funny is that I changed my perspective on United Healthcare ONLY because I recognized the damage it could do in the wrong hands of a bad government, and the people making arguments against it today always fail until it comes to that point.

Yet some of the same people are saying we should grant the Government power to spy on our actions, you know, to keep us safe and "healthy".

I don't see much of a difference, other than party perspective. Just like Iraq vs. Libya. Both major parties want to criticize what the other does in the exact same situation. And don't think Im Libertarian, Im not and will never be. But when you join a party you start to justify things just to win and you let things slip by that you generally wouldn't........such as the Patriot Act.

The major vote that let the Patriot Act through was "god and guns" and people who thought they were Patriotic..
 
blackascoal said:
Question: Where and when did this government acquire these superpowers that allows it to do ANY FUCKING THING IT WANTS?

From whence doth such power come from?

9/11 .. which was very, very good for the MIC and the corporate shadow government.
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Long before 9/11 there was 12/7. That's where this all really started, as it gave us internment/concentration camps, the CIA, NSA, and a permanent entrance into global conflict oversight. Also, there are conspiracy theories about that attack as well... :D
 
Anti-Party said:
They are looking at all callers, looking for specific information.. and that isn't defense, that is offense..
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Yeah, that's what is total BS about the program. There should always be specific targets and threat levels associated with said targets. Spying on the public at large with no specific search criteria is insane.
 
Anti-Party said:
Edward Snowden's recent "whistle blowing" stirred up lots of attention. But the advanced political minds in America knew the "Patriot Act" didn't make you a Patriot for supporting it....we knew what it was written for long ago..........The people who didn't care what it meant, as long as it empowered their party attacked everyone who wasn't a "Patriot"

So here is a short and basic question;


Should the Government be transparent about what they do? Or more, should we give them all the information we have on our daily lives, because we are innocent?
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Wow, what a niave question. The reality of government power, as it has always been, is that those who are governed are in a "Catch-22" situation in that Government can pretty much do what they damned well please as long as we, the governed, can't stop them.

To limit government powers requires moral courage at both the individual and community level. So just look around you......the answer to your question should be self evident.
 
Don Quixote said:
should the manhatten project been part of government transparency? that or difficult diplomatic negotiations.

yes there needs to be oversight, but when congress leak things just so they can feel important, who gets to know what?
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I don't think anyone here is confused about whether telling us the government has access to records of who calls whom is NOT the Manhattan Project.......
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Wow, what a niave question. The reality of government power, as it has always been, is that those who are governed are in a "Catch-22" situation in that Government can pretty much do what they damned well please as long as we, the governed, can't stop them.

To limit government powers requires moral courage at both the individual and community level. So just look around you......the answer to your question should be self evident.
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what we need is a grass roots level movement to get the usa patriot act repealed.

maybe this latest demonstration of government intrusion into our lives can be the springboard to launch an attack on the usa patriot act.

unfortunately, probably not. the public's attention span is too short
 
Don Quixote said:
what we need is a grass roots level movement to get the usa patriot act repealed.

maybe this latest demonstration of government intrusion into our lives can be the springboard to launch an attack on the usa patriot act.

unfortunately, probably not. the public's attention span is too short
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People like this they only object when the other side is doing it. But good luck
 
The public cares about government intrusion for a news cycle, and then, their attention is grabbed by HEY did you see what happened on American Ido.. Who's leading at the US Open golf tournament in...Wow... How about those tornados in Okla..Gosh, the sales at the mall for father's day are... Hold on a second... Someone is texting me... What were you saying?
 
They are intent on making every conversation and every form of behavior in the world known to them.

You can't wait around for someone else to act.

I had been looking for leaders, but I realized that leadership is about being the first to act.
 
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