A smarter way forward for real conservatives, for America

apparently you ignore reality....

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/21/official-obama-increase-year-deficit-trillion/

even Obama admits that the total that will be added to the national debt due to the spending he has done this year will be $9 trillion....and that's if he doesn't spend another penny for the rest of his term.....
when he took office the national debt was around $10trillion....thus, he's managed to double it in just eight months.....
Dude, you do understand what a projection is, don't you? Let's talk about it when those debts have actually occurred and are not just speculation. Till then, you don't have a leg to stand on not to mention any credibility. Right now, the reality on the ground, as it exist right here, right now, not some day in the future, is very little of our national debt is attributable to Obama and that's the facts. Deal with it.
 
Dude, you do understand what a projection is, don't you? Let's talk about it when those debts have actually occurred and are not just speculation. Till then, you don't have a leg to stand on not to mention any credibility. Right now, the reality on the ground, as it exist right here, right now, not some day in the future, is very little of our national debt is attributable to Obama and that's the facts. Deal with it.

sounds like a liberal.....so I suppose if I pass a law that says in the year 2015 we will spend $100 trillion dollars to buy everyone in the country a new bicycle, the net result is that I have spent nothing?......that I have had no effect upon the national debt?.....sucks to be my successor in office, doesn't it.....

look child, the $9 trillion is the amount Obama has admitted is attributable to Obama, and THAT is the fact.....deal with it.....
 
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Really? Would you care to qualify that comment? I do seem to remember a certain white politician stating that he was "Called by God to lead this nation." and how that statement was so enthusiastically supported by his followers.....but none of them or his political opponents called him "The One" or "The Messiah".

I also note how it's many of these same folks who call him that that also called him muslim and also reject his status as a US citizen.

I mean OH NO, none of these folks would never, ever think Obama is an uppity niger. Yea right! Keep hitting that crack pipe and drinking the kool-aid. I know better.

All hot air, no legitimate point. Nothing relevant.

You have failed to make the case that calling obama "the messiah" has anything to do with racism.

Keep on digging, fool.
 
At least it wasn't at school, and it is the reason that I don't complain about the one with the little girl starting singing the solo. That was at somebody's house. I wouldn't do that to my kids, but other people indoctrinate their kids into their opinions regularly.

A few years ago, one of my Grandsons told me; that in one of his classes, his teacher had told the students that following Katrina an ambulance had to stop, let President Bush's motorcade go by, and because the ambulance had to stop, the patient died.

I called the school and asked for a meeting with the Principal, the teacher, and myself.
When I asked the teacher where she had gotten this story from, she said her husband had told her that he had heard it on a radio talk show.
I pressed farther and her reasoning was that she was trying to teach the students about "empathy"; but she had no proof, other then her husband had told her the story.

I then told her that I didn't believe her, that this entire thing smelled of a political agenda, and that I didn't appreciate her using her position of authority to push her feelings onto my Grandson or any other student.

When she continued to try to show this was about teaching the students sympathy; I asked her if she would allow me to come to the class and give them an example of a President having an affair with a young lady that was same age as his own daughter and how would they feel if someone in their family did that, she had nothing to say.

There have been no such more such attempts at using such "examples", since then.
 
If not, then how comes no one has referred to other charismatic politcal leaders, such as Bill Clinton or JFK or George W. Bush as, "The One" or "The Messiah"? How comes these appelations are just now being applied to a charismatic BLACK political leader? To say that these terms do not have racist overtones defies reason.

again, you rely on the standard fallback that it must be racism.

Do you think for one moment it might be the media coverage? We did not have the 24/7 media coverage during JFK or Reagans time in office. No internet, no blogs, no message boards, no chat rooms etc... Clinton had it during the latter part of his Presidency, but he had already suffered the set backs on health care and he did not have the devout followers that Obama did... not anywhere close. Bush? are you kidding me? He shouldn't even be in a discussion of charismatic leaders. He most certainly didn't have the adulation that Obama had.

I will say JFK was close with all of the talk of 'Camelot'. Had there been an on-line media/chat rooms/message boards back then, I would imagine it would have been similar to what Obama saw. But we only had the three networks (who would never say anything like that... even today) and the major papers (who also would not say anything like that)

Again, you are trying to use race because that is your fallback to anything and everything when it comes to someone mocking/criticizing Obama or in this case even mocking his followers.
 
You not only dont' have credibility, you can't even tell the truth. The national debt has gone up from 5 trillion (most of that under Reagan and Bush I) to 10 Trillion under Bush II. That's 5 Trillion dollars of debt that occurred under Bush. Under Obama there's been about 1.4 trillion in debt added. Most of that occurred due to the 2008 economic meltdown under Bush. Additionally the TARP funds were approved under Bush even if they have been spent by the Obama administration. So In reality very little of our national debt is presently due to Obama.

So you either don't know what your talking about or are being dishonest or your just drinking the Kool-aid.

Reagan... $1.6 trillion
Clinton... $1.6 trillion...

So funny that the left always harp about the debt of Reagan but fail to mention Clinton in the same breath.... especially when Clinton raised it during a time of peace AND of economic prosperity. That said...lil Bush really sucked.
 
That's right they can and most of them aren't fooled one god damned little bit by your racist code langauge.

Racist code language? Jesus Waldo Christ. He got the name messiah, the one, etc., by the left slobbering all over him like he was some kind of saint. It had absolutely not one god damned thing to do with his race. Sheeeesh!!!
 
Racist code language? Jesus Waldo Christ. He got the name messiah, the one, etc., by the left slobbering all over him like he was some kind of saint. It had absolutely not one god damned thing to do with his race. Sheeeesh!!!

Now-now, don't confuse his worshipers with logic.
 
Well from your perspective, considering your part of the far right polity, I doubt that I can do that cause in your mind anything slightly to the left of Attila the Hun would be a commie pinko liberal. From my perspective Democrats that I know to be moderate to center right would include, Evan Baye, Ben Nelson, Bob Conley, Pete Geren, Gabrielle Giffords, Brad Carson, John Tanner, Jim Matheson, Loretta Sanchez, Charlie Wilson, Mike Thompson, Gene Taylor, John Tanner, Zack Space, Heath Schuler, David, Scott, Adam Schiff, Mike Ross, Earl Pomeroy, Collin Paterson, Glenn Nye, Marion Berry (the one from Arkansas, not DC), Bob Casey, Jr are just a few that come to mind. Now again, with your being a member of the far right I understand that these are all pinko commies to you but most of the nation, who are not of the far right, considers these people to be moderate to center right to conservative and all are Democrats.


When you're in the right ditch, the double yellow line down the center of the road looks like left to you.

What you are seeing is the successful effort to redefine the political spectrum with a massive shift to the right, such that the mainstream corporate media avoids explicit references to right wing lunatics, which is exactly what they are. They are now referred to as "values voters" (or my personal favorite "low information voters," a euphemism heard now and again during the last presidential election. The fact that this categorization did not draw howls of outrage from the right wing shows that they do not have the vocabulary required to comprehend the insult inherent in that phrase.) The shift has been so successful that, not only have the right wing twits been given an air of respectability totally undeserved and at odds with the stench of their racism, homophobia, and religious intolerance, they are rarely taken to task for their complete inability to accurately discern what their best interests are and vote accordingly, even when someone like Wendell Potter, ex-VP of Corporate Relations for CIGNA, one of the health insurance giants, tells them explicitly that all the allegations about rationing of health care in Canada and the UK made by opponents of the public option are LIES.

In addition, when a center-right Democrat like Bill Clinton, a founding member of the corporately funded Democratic Leadership Council, is called a leftist, there is a serious problem with cognitive dissonance. No, check that. Let's call it what it is: butt-ignorant. No self-respecting liberal president, let alone an alleghed "leftist" ideologue, would ever support, much less sign into law such anti-liberal and/or pro-corporate rot as NAFTA, the WTO, Welfare Reform, the Defense of Marriage Act, the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, telecommunications deregulation, or participate in the further weakening of the FCC's regulations on media ownership, like Clinton did. Anyone who thinks he was a flaming liberal simply has no idea what liberalism is, nor does anyone who thinks that "liberal" equals "leftist."

The current popular model of the political spectrum, a one-dimensional continuum from right-wing (fascism) to left-wing (communism), has several fatal flaws, not the least of which is its inability to discern between liberals and conservatives on the one hand, and the ideologically driven wingers of both sides on the other hand. It is better understood as a two-dimensional circular model, where the y-axis (vertical) delineates the liberalconservative split, and the x-axis (horizontal) denotes the split between those who are ideologically driven and those for whom the individual citizen's best interests are paramount. At the top of the y-axis at 0 degrees is liberal (small L) democracy, the founders' gift to the world, and at the bottom at 180 is dictatorship, and to the man in the street, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between a communist dictatorship and a fascist one. China made the change from a communist regime to a fascist regime the second they signed their first agreement with a multinational corporation (because there is quite simply no such thing as a communist capitalist), yet at no time did they pass through a stage of liberal democracy, as they would have to in the conventional linear model of the political spectrum. No, they just took the small step from 18o degrees, 0 minutes and 1 second to 179 degrees, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds.

My point, and the implicit point of Mott's post above, is that the left/right delineation is essentially meaningless, because no matter which way you lean, left or right, if you lean too far in either direction, you end up in a dictatorship, and neither direction is more likely than the other to lead to authoritarian rule,

The more important distinction is the horizontal split between those above the x-axis, whose focus is on the individual, and those below it, who are driven by ideology. Above the line, you have meaningful debate between true liberals and true conservatives leading to consensus and compromise. Below it you have no meaningful debate. Instead, you have ideological pissing matches leading to scorched earth obstructionism, with no possibility of compromise. At this point in time, the GOP is firmly in the grasp of the chittering ideologues for whom the only division that exists is the right/left division, and who are so brain dead, they think Obama, who is barely (if at all) to the left of center, is simultaneously a Marxist and a fascist, a socialist and a Nazi, which by definition of all four terms, is oxymoronic. The true, thoughtful conservatives, and by that i mean people who believe in 1) limited, but not nonexistent, government, 2) fiscal restraint, 3) personal responsibility, and 4) that progress, while necessary in some cases, and advisable in many others, needs to be leavened with a respect for what has worked in the past.

Works for me.
 
When you're in the right ditch, the double yellow line down the center of the road looks like left to you.

What you are seeing is the successful effort to redefine the political spectrum with a massive shift to the right, such that the mainstream corporate media avoids explicit references to right wing lunatics, which is exactly what they are. They are now referred to as "values voters" (or my personal favorite "low information voters," a euphemism heard now and again during the last presidential election. The fact that this categorization did not draw howls of outrage from the right wing shows that they do not have the vocabulary required to comprehend the insult inherent in that phrase.) The shift has been so successful that, not only have the right wing twits been given an air of respectability totally undeserved and at odds with the stench of their racism, homophobia, and religious intolerance, they are rarely taken to task for their complete inability to accurately discern what their best interests are and vote accordingly, even when someone like Wendell Potter, ex-VP of Corporate Relations for CIGNA, one of the health insurance giants, tells them explicitly that all the allegations about rationing of health care in Canada and the UK made by opponents of the public option are LIES.

In addition, when a center-right Democrat like Bill Clinton, a founding member of the corporately funded Democratic Leadership Council, is called a leftist, there is a serious problem with cognitive dissonance. No, check that. Let's call it what it is: butt-ignorant. No self-respecting liberal president, let alone an alleghed "leftist" ideologue, would ever support, much less sign into law such anti-liberal and/or pro-corporate rot as NAFTA, the WTO, Welfare Reform, the Defense of Marriage Act, the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, telecommunications deregulation, or participate in the further weakening of the FCC's regulations on media ownership, like Clinton did. Anyone who thinks he was a flaming liberal simply has no idea what liberalism is, nor does anyone who thinks that "liberal" equals "leftist."

The current popular model of the political spectrum, a one-dimensional continuum from right-wing (fascism) to left-wing (communism), has several fatal flaws, not the least of which is its inability to discern between liberals and conservatives on the one hand, and the ideologically driven wingers of both sides on the other hand. It is better understood as a two-dimensional circular model, where the y-axis (vertical) delineates the liberalconservative split, and the x-axis (horizontal) denotes the split between those who are ideologically driven and those for whom the individual citizen's best interests are paramount. At the top of the y-axis at 0 degrees is liberal (small L) democracy, the founders' gift to the world, and at the bottom at 180 is dictatorship, and to the man in the street, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between a communist dictatorship and a fascist one. China made the change from a communist regime to a fascist regime the second they signed their first agreement with a multinational corporation (because there is quite simply no such thing as a communist capitalist), yet at no time did they pass through a stage of liberal democracy, as they would have to in the conventional linear model of the political spectrum. No, they just took the small step from 18o degrees, 0 minutes and 1 second to 179 degrees, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds.

My point, and the implicit point of Mott's post above, is that the left/right delineation is essentially meaningless, because no matter which way you lean, left or right, if you lean too far in either direction, you end up in a dictatorship, and neither direction is more likely than the other to lead to authoritarian rule,

The more important distinction is the horizontal split between those above the x-axis, whose focus is on the individual, and those below it, who are driven by ideology. Above the line, you have meaningful debate between true liberals and true conservatives leading to consensus and compromise. Below it you have no meaningful debate. Instead, you have ideological pissing matches leading to scorched earth obstructionism, with no possibility of compromise. At this point in time, the GOP is firmly in the grasp of the chittering ideologues for whom the only division that exists is the right/left division, and who are so brain dead, they think Obama, who is barely (if at all) to the left of center, is simultaneously a Marxist and a fascist, a socialist and a Nazi, which by definition of all four terms, is oxymoronic. The true, thoughtful conservatives, and by that i mean people who believe in 1) limited, but not nonexistent, government, 2) fiscal restraint, 3) personal responsibility, and 4) that progress, while necessary in some cases, and advisable in many others, needs to be leavened with a respect for what has worked in the past.

Works for me.

Your every thought is erroneous.

You can't refute arguments, so you turn to personal villainization. You fail.
 
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