A great man died

[evince]

I've read anecdotes like that, but they were a bit more artfully worded; more like:

The United States has the highest per capita population under criminal justice supervision* in the Western world.

And yes. Martial oppression. There's more to it than Drug War. But Drug War is a major component of it.
Waging War against the People is a bad idea.

Ironically, though some do profit from Drug War, government could make even more money from the POWs without locking them up.
The ones that have to make up the shortfall are you and me.

* This includes not only jail and prison populations, but also parolees, and those with ankle monitors, akin to house arrest, etc.

need to keep people from voting and make money off incarcerating people

 

[blackascoal]

No shit. We count them though. Brazil doesnt keep records. Prison reform is much more than just "pardons". We need culture reform. Then prison/sentencing reform.

Land of the Free? US Has 25 Percent of the World’s Prisoners
http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/16/la...he-worlds-population-and-25-of-its-prisoners/

America is the world’s largest jailer — and its prison population is growing again: report
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/12/ame...ts-prison-population-is-growing-again-report/

That's right. The US has 25% of all the prisoners in the world.

Point being, imagine that statistic / FACT in the hands of Damo or Milagro attached to another country. They would ignore all else going on in that country and immediately declare it brutal and repressive.

That's why neither want to acknowledge nor talk about the UNDENIABLE successes of Castro and Cuba in the face of decades long repression from its much larger neighbor to the north.

Without US oppression, Cuba would be much further along in its development.

 

[evince]

they like it


they get to win elections and make money off of imprisoning people

 

[The Only Sarge]

Land of the Free? US Has 25 Percent of the World’s Prisoners
http://billmoyers.com/2013/12/16/la...he-worlds-population-and-25-of-its-prisoners/

America is the world’s largest jailer — and its prison population is growing again: report
http://www.rawstory.com/2014/12/ame...ts-prison-population-is-growing-again-report/

That's right. The US has 25% of all the prisoners in the world.

Point being, imagine that statistic / FACT in the hands of Damo or Milagro attached to another country. They would ignore all else going on in that country and immediately declare it brutal and repressive.

That's why neither want to acknowledge nor talk about the successes of Castro and Cuba in the face of decades long repression from its much larger neighbor to the north.

Without US oppression, Cuba would be much father along in its development.

I was the project manager for everything south of the US for about 4 years. Managed over 33 airports in the Caribbean, Central and South America. for a major airline.
Pick one (except Grand Cayman). All the islands struggle with poverty of unimaginable magnitude. You get away from the resorts and your in shit city.
This with US investments and funds.
I struggle with "blame" of no US investments/help/funds for the sole cause of Cuba being behind in anything.

 

[blackascoal]

I was the project manager for everything south of the US for about 4 years. Managed over 33 airports in the Caribbean, Central and South America. for a major airline.
Pick one (except Grand Cayman). All the islands struggle with poverty of unimaginable magnitude. You get away from the resorts and your in shit city.
This with US investments and funds.
I struggle with "blame" of no US investments/help/funds for the sole cause of Cuba being behind in anything.

For many of those countries, socialism is the only way out .. just as it was for Libya .. and daring someone to challenge me on that.

Check this out ..

.. which points directly to BILL CLINTON, the worlds biggest jailer.

 

[The Only Sarge]

For many of those countries, socialism is the only way out .. just as it was for Libya .. and daring someone to challenge me on that.

Check this out ..

.. which points directly to BILL CLINTON, the worlds biggest jailer.

Totally agree. Culture change and sentencing reform=prison reform.

 

[sear]

#201

Yes.

a) There are winners. And

b) there are losers.

The prison-industrial-complex is a clear winner, though enough study has been done of it to suggest in the U.S. we may be moving away from that model; that government run incarceration works better.

In the U.S. it can cost $30K / yr to incarcerate a citizen. SURELY some will profit. BUT !! The government that puts them there loses; self-defeating by definition.
In addition, before incarceration that citizen might have been an employer; thus the incarceration may be rendering multiple former tax payers unemployed.

A citizen earning $60K / year, a modest salary I would think, at 12% interest would pay over $7,000.oo in income tax. Add to that State and local taxes and fees, bridge tolls, sales tax, licensing fees, etc; and it may be near $10K.
So it's the delta, the difference from being a ~$10K revenue source, to a $30K revenue drain.

That's a $40,000.oo difference.

Yes. SOMEbody makes $money on it. But there are plenty of losers too; including the law abiding tax payers stuck making up the difference.

 

[evince]

I was the project manager for everything south of the US for about 4 years. Managed over 33 airports in the Caribbean, Central and South America. for a major airline.
Pick one (except Grand Cayman). All the islands struggle with poverty of unimaginable magnitude. You get away from the resorts and your in shit city.
This with US investments and funds.
I struggle with "blame" of no US investments/help/funds for the sole cause of Cuba being behind in anything.

sure

fucking liar

 

[evince]

#201

Yes.

a) There are winners. And

b) there are losers.

The prison-industrial-complex is a clear winner, though enough study has been done of it to suggest in the U.S. we may be moving away from that model; that government run incarceration works better.

In the U.S. it can cost $30K / yr to incarcerate a citizen. SURELY some will profit. BUT !! The government that puts them there loses; self-defeating by definition.
In addition, before incarceration that citizen might have been an employer; thus the incarceration may be rendering multiple former tax payers unemployed.

A citizen earning $60K / year, a modest salary I would think, at 12% interest would pay over $7,000.oo in income tax. Add to that State and local taxes and fees, bridge tolls, sales tax, licensing fees, etc; and it may be near $10K.
So it's the delta, the difference from being a ~$10K revenue source, to a $30K revenue drain.

That's a $40,000.oo difference.

Yes. SOMEbody makes $money on it. But there are plenty of losers too; including the law abiding tax payers stuck making up the difference.

No one should make money off of imprisoning people


evil

 

[blackascoal]

#201

Yes.

a) There are winners. And

b) there are losers.

The prison-industrial-complex is a clear winner, though enough study has been done of it to suggest in the U.S. we may be moving away from that model; that government run incarceration works better.

In the U.S. it can cost $30K / yr to incarcerate a citizen. SURELY some will profit. BUT !! The government that puts them there loses; self-defeating by definition.
In addition, before incarceration that citizen might have been an employer; thus the incarceration may be rendering multiple former tax payers unemployed.

A citizen earning $60K / year, a modest salary I would think, at 12% interest would pay over $7,000.oo in income tax. Add to that State and local taxes and fees, bridge tolls, sales tax, licensing fees, etc; and it may be near $10K.
So it's the delta, the difference from being a ~$10K revenue source, to a $30K revenue drain.

That's a $40,000.oo difference.

Yes. SOMEbody makes $money on it. But there are plenty of losers too; including the law abiding tax payers stuck making up the difference.

We are a full-blown plutocracy .. disguised by the illusion of democracy.

 

[evince]

the right has used then system to disenfranchise voters

 

[blackascoal]

Totally agree. Culture change and sentencing reform=prison reform.

Bill Clinton's prison policies were part of the baggage that his wife had to carry in this past election. What he did to black communities was brutal. I think more highly of George Bush than I do Bill Clinton.

That being said, I put that aside and still voted for Hillary given the threat of a Trump presidency.

 

[blackascoal]

the right has used then system to disenfranchise voters

I agree .. but the system is ripe for fraud.

Only progressives will change that.

 

[The Only Sarge]

Bill Clinton's prison policies were part of the baggage that his wife had to carry in this past election. What he did to black communities was brutal. I think more highly of George Bush than I do Bill Clinton.

That being said, I put that aside and still voted for Hillary given the threat of a Trump presidency.

I agree on the smoke and mirrors the Clinton's fed minorities. I supported Ben Carson until he dropped. Then sit thinking Oh Shit.....I voted against Hillary.

 

[evince]

I agree .. but the system is ripe for fraud.

Only progressives will change that.

I'm a liberal


I fight it all the time


pretending Bill Clinton sought to harm black people is just not true

 

[Bill]

Hey it kind of worked out to everyone's benefits. One of the successful colonizations

Hhhhmmm.........

Back in the days of "explorations" which was really "exploitation" in many, many ways, everyone wanted to get to India, the richest country in the world @ the time.. Oddly enough when the Brits left if was no longer the richest & was one of the poorest~???

 

[evince]

Bill Clinton's prison policies were part of the baggage that his wife had to carry in this past election. What he did to black communities was brutal. I think more highly of George Bush than I do Bill Clinton.

That being said, I put that aside and still voted for Hillary given the threat of a Trump presidency.

he did not govern in a vaccume


face that he did what hen could get done with the Newt fucks all over his back

 

[sear]

"No one should make money off of imprisoning people
evil" #209

I like the idea that we're all choir boys too.
But it simply isn't practical, in a population of over 300 million.

We have way more behind bars than belong there. We've covered that already. That includes non-violent offenders.

BUT !!

There are some that society needs to be protected from. Whether we put them in a cage, or suspend them from a rope, that's a separate issue.

BUT !!

The pros that take care of it for us deserve to be compensated for their efforts. That includes:
- police patrolman & sheriff's deputy
- LEO leadership / chiefs of police
- law judges
- attorneys
- jailers
- and those that serve them: launderers, restaurant workers, auto. mechanics, plumbers *, etc.

* Thugs stole the toilet out of the police station last week. The police have nothing to go on.

 

[anatta]

Hhhhmmm.........

Back in the days of "explorations" which was really "exploitation" in many, many ways, everyone wanted to get to India, the richest country in the world @ the time.. Oddly enough when the Brits left if was no longer the richest & was one of the poorest~???

why was that? *curious*
I was thinking of the railway system -still the main hub today, as well as building up their administration abilites

 

[evince]

I like the idea that we're all choir boys too.
But it simply isn't practical, in a population of over 300 million.

We have way more behind bars than belong there. We've covered that already. That includes non-violent offenders.

BUT !!

There are some that society needs to be protected from. Whether we put them in a cage, or suspend them from a rope, that's a separate issue.

BUT !!

The pros that take care of it for us deserve to be compensated for their efforts. That includes:
- police patrolman & sheriff's deputy
- LEO leadership / chiefs of police
- law judges
- attorneys
- jailers
- and those that serve them: launderers, restaurant workers, auto. mechanics, plumbers *, etc.

* Thugs stole the toilet out of the police station last week. The police have nothing to go on.

incarceration should have NOTHING to do with profit


It is an EVIL idea