A great man died

sear said:
#234

In principle I don't know why not, if it lowered costs *.

In practice it seems for profit prisons don't seem to save the $tax $payer much, if anything.

Philosophically I'm conservative. I don't have a problem with minimizing government, shifting to the private sector:
- private schools
- parochial schools
- charter schools

For example, I suspect Wal~Mart has both a better selection, and lower prices than a U.S. military BX (a government retail store on a military reservation).
But the VA gets high marks for health care efficiency (particularly in record keeping); and may be better than private hospitals.

So I believe it's a mixed bag.

* We can't rule that out.
Government workers may have set civil service pay scales; whereas private sector employers might have greater flexibility in setting wage ranges. The People might $save a little there.
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Blah blah blah private prisons lead to higher incarceration rates end of discussian.
There are US judges in jail for this reason as we speak.
 
Rune said:
An investment recouped millions of times over.
Hardly charity.
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Well let's contrast the treatment of your Indians with our Indians, shall we? Over 90% of native Americans were wiped out by disease, wars and starvation. As for infrastructure, I would suggest that fuck all just about sums it up.

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Milagro said:
Well let's contrast the treatment of your Indians with our Indians, shall we? Over 90% of native Americans were wiped out by disease, wars and starvation. As for infrastructure, I would suggest that fuck all just about sums it up.

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Sorry pal but it was the UK that did that as well.
 
blackascoal said:
There is no way to get around the tremendous benefits to the quality of life that Castro brought to the Cuban people .. and you've proven that because you've not offered one scintilla of evidence that he didn't .. AND YOU CAN'T.

If you can .. LET'S SEE IT.

What's the problem?
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Then maybe you can explain why so many fled to the US, with many of them dying in their attempt.
 
Rune said:
Sorry pal but it was the UK that did that as well.
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Who killed off all the buffalo, stole their land, put them on reservations, appointed Indian agents to cheat and starve them?

Oh and the most egregious sin of all who inspired Kevin Costner to make Dancing with Wolves?

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"private prisons lead to higher incarceration rates end of discussian." #242
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But even if so,
not necessarily so.

Should we not privatize ANY operation performed by government?
In New York State, automobiles require inspection once per year. The inspections are performed by licensed, private garages.
But in the '60's (I don't know how they do it now) their yearly inspection was performed by NJ State Troopers.

The private approach in NY works fine. & it's a bargain, $21.oo
 
Milagro said:
It would go a long way to help if the mentally ill were looked after properly and drugs addicts put on treatment programs. I suggest that the poppy crop in Afghanistan was bought up and used to make heroin. That would kill dead the Mexican drug cartels dealing in impure shitty heroin.

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Due to the UCLA and the liberals, the mentally ill can no longer be confined as long as they're not a danger to themselves or others.
Even if it's shown that they are a danger, as soon as they're "stabilized" they can no longer be held.
rinse - repeat - rinse - repeat.
 
Bill said:
Sadly being mentally ill is a crime & we have no facilities to help them..... Most are on the streets or in jail...

They say about 1/3 of those in prison are mentally ill~& of them few are receiving any care @ all.....

A quarter of the homeless here are Vets, WTF???

In the past our society was willing to pay to help ppl, no longer.. :(
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Please provide something that supports your theory that being mentally ill is a crime.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Please provide something that supports your theory that being mentally ill is a crime.
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I will give you an example of one I witnessed first hand while sitting out in front of the court house while on jury duty..

Was sitting having my lunch & the crazy man comes to the front door yelling about the police.. Lays down & carring on about being arressted, even to the point of putting his hand behind his neck for the cuffs.........

After a few mins the cops go back in & leave him out side w/ us listening to his babbling.......... He obviously needed a bath & a few good meals & that was his easiest way to get it...........

The Jailed and Imprisoned Mentally Ill
Since 1999, the Department of Justice has released two reports dealing with the issue of mentally ill inmates. It found that fully 16 percent of the people in the nation's corrections systems were mentally ill, but that only 60 percent of those reported receiving any mental health treatment. Below are highlights of the reports, plus links to three studies that analyze the problem and suggest reforms.

• At midyear 1998, there were over a quarter of a million mentally ill people incarcerated in prison or jail. An estimated 283,800 inmates -- or 16 percent of all incarcerated individuals -- reported either a mental condition or an overnight stay in a mental hospital, and were identified as mentally ill.

• Only 60 percent of the mentally ill in state and federal prisons reported receiving mental health treatment since being incarcerated.
• About two-thirds of the inmates in state facilities who receive counseling or psychotropic medications were in facilities that didn't specialize in providing mental health services in confinement.

• Half of the mentally ill inmates in state and federal facilities reported having three or more prior sentences.

• Mentally ill state prison inmates were more than twice as likely as other inmates to report living on the street or in a shelter within the last 12 months.

• Offenders between the ages of 45 and 54 were most likely to be identified as mentally ill.

• Mentally ill inmates were more likely than others to have been convicted of a violent offense (murder, sexual assault, robbery, or assault). Thirty-three percent of federal inmates identified as mentally ill had been convicted of a violent offense, compared to 13 percent of other inmates. In state facilities, 53 percent of mentally ill inmates had been convicted of a violent offensel, compared to 46 percent of other inmates.

Sources: Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Mental Health and Treatment of Inmates and Probationers," July 1999; Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Mental Health Treatment in State Prisons, 2000," July 2001

: Department of Justice Statistics

: "Mental Health and Treatment of Inmates and Probationers" (PDF)
This 1999 report from the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics -- its first comprehensive study of mental illness in correctional facilities -- found that there were approximately 284,000 mentally ill offenders incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails in 1998, or fully 16 percent of the total population in the nation's corrections systems. Among the report's other findings: mentally ill offenders were more likely to have committed violent offenses; half of the mentally ill inmates reported having at least three prior sentences; and only 60 percent of the mentally ill in state and federal prisons received some form of mental health treatment during their incarceration.

: "Mental Health Treatment in State Prisons, 2000" (PDF)
According to this Bureau of Justice Statistics report released in July 2001, one in every eight state prisoners was receiving some form of mental health therapy or counseling at midyear 2000. Among the report's other findings: nearly 10 percent of the inmates at state facilities received psychotropic medication; just over half of the state facilities provide 24-hour mental health care; and only two-thirds of the facilities help released prisoners obtain mental health services.

: Analyses & Recommendations

: Criminal Justice/Mental Health Consensus Project (PDF)
[Note: File is 2.7 MB.] This 453-page report released in June 2002, which was prepared by the Council of State Governments in coordination with other research and policy organizations, was funded in part by the U.S. Department of Justice. The authors provide a general overview of the current system and its shortcomings, and have included 46 "policy statements" that detail ways to improve the criminal justice system's management of mentally ill offenders. To view the report's recommendations online, use this flow chart of select events to navigate through each recommendation. Among other things, the report recommends that inmates be screened for mental illness once they are sentenced and that all corrections officers receive training on recognizing the signs of mental illness.

: "Mentally Ill Offenders in the Criminal Justice System: An Analysis and Prescription" (PDF)
The authors of this report from The Sentencing Project -- a nonprofit research and advocacy organization -- find that "mental disorders among prisoners are estimated to be at least five times more prevalent than in the general population." The report goes on to detail recommendations for improving the system, from funding alternatives to incarceration to providing better treatment to mentally ill parolees.

: "Prisons and Jails: Hospitals of Last Resort"
A study of the mentally ill in New York's criminal justice system, conducted by the Correctional Association of New York and the Urban Justice Center. The study found that 15-20 percent of city jail inmates were mentally ill, as well as 7-8 percent of state prisoners. "The vast majority of people with mental illness in the criminal justice system are not dangerous and are not incarcerated for long," the report states. The central premise of the report, its authors say, "is that people with mental illness rarely belong in jail and prison." Among their recommendations, the authors say that mentally ill patients should be diverted from the criminal justice system into mental health facilities and that the "continuum of care" extend beyond discharge.
 
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Milagro said:
I am thinking that he means that being mentally ill is not a defence in a court of law, unless you are rich of course.

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Then ne needed to state it as such, but since he made a declarative statement, he really should back up is ASSumptions and ASSertions.
 
Milagro said:
Who killed off all the buffalo, stole their land, put them on reservations, appointed Indian agents to cheat and starve them?

Oh and the most egregious sin of all who inspired Kevin Costner to make Dancing with Wolves?

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English aristocrats posing as Americans same as it is today.
All of our presidents save one are descened from King John, the signer of the Magna Carta.
Washinton in particular could trace his heritage all the way back to Woden inarguably the father of all kings.
Not sure what Jackson's exact extraction is but clearly he was as reptillian as any other despot in his utter disregard for the human suffering he caused. Similar to Bush or Obama or Hillary, the sanctity of life is as meaninless to them as it is to the semitic culture of death in the M.E.
 
Bill said:
I will give you an example of one I witnessed first hand while sitting out in front of the court house while on jury duty..

Was sitting having my lunch & the crazy man comes to the front door yelling about the police.. Lays down & carrys on about being arressted, even to the point of putting his hand behind his neck for the cuffs.........

After a few mins the cops go back in & leave him out side w/ us listening to his babbling.......... He obviously needed a bath & a few good meals & that was his easiest way to get it...........

The Jailed and Imprisoned Mentally Ill
Since 1999, the Department of Justice has released two reports dealing with the issue of mentally ill inmates. It found that fully 16 percent of the people in the nation's corrections systems were mentally ill, but that only 60 percent of those reported receiving any mental health treatment. Below are highlights of the reports, plus links to three studies that analyze the problem and suggest reforms.

• At midyear 1998, there were over a quarter of a million mentally ill people incarcerated in prison or jail. An estimated 283,800 inmates -- or 16 percent of all incarcerated individuals -- reported either a mental condition or an overnight stay in a mental hospital, and were identified as mentally ill.

• Only 60 percent of the mentally ill in state and federal prisons reported receiving mental health treatment since being incarcerated.
• About two-thirds of the inmates in state facilities who receive counseling or psychotropic medications were in facilities that didn't specialize in providing mental health services in confinement.

• Half of the mentally ill inmates in state and federal facilities reported having three or more prior sentences.

• Mentally ill state prison inmates were more than twice as likely as other inmates to report living on the street or in a shelter within the last 12 months.

• Offenders between the ages of 45 and 54 were most likely to be identified as mentally ill.

• Mentally ill inmates were more likely than others to have been convicted of a violent offense (murder, sexual assault, robbery, or assault). Thirty-three percent of federal inmates identified as mentally ill had been convicted of a violent offense, compared to 13 percent of other inmates. In state facilities, 53 percent of mentally ill inmates had been convicted of a violent offensel, compared to 46 percent of other inmates.

Sources: Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Mental Health and Treatment of Inmates and Probationers," July 1999; Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Mental Health Treatment in State Prisons, 2000," July 2001

: Department of Justice Statistics

: "Mental Health and Treatment of Inmates and Probationers" (PDF)
This 1999 report from the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics -- its first comprehensive study of mental illness in correctional facilities -- found that there were approximately 284,000 mentally ill offenders incarcerated in U.S. prisons and jails in 1998, or fully 16 percent of the total population in the nation's corrections systems. Among the report's other findings: mentally ill offenders were more likely to have committed violent offenses; half of the mentally ill inmates reported having at least three prior sentences; and only 60 percent of the mentally ill in state and federal prisons received some form of mental health treatment during their incarceration.

: "Mental Health Treatment in State Prisons, 2000" (PDF)
According to this Bureau of Justice Statistics report released in July 2001, one in every eight state prisoners was receiving some form of mental health therapy or counseling at midyear 2000. Among the report's other findings: nearly 10 percent of the inmates at state facilities received psychotropic medication; just over half of the state facilities provide 24-hour mental health care; and only two-thirds of the facilities help released prisoners obtain mental health services.

: Analyses & Recommendations

: Criminal Justice/Mental Health Consensus Project (PDF)
[Note: File is 2.7 MB.] This 453-page report released in June 2002, which was prepared by the Council of State Governments in coordination with other research and policy organizations, was funded in part by the U.S. Department of Justice. The authors provide a general overview of the current system and its shortcomings, and have included 46 "policy statements" that detail ways to improve the criminal justice system's management of mentally ill offenders. To view the report's recommendations online, use this flow chart of select events to navigate through each recommendation. Among other things, the report recommends that inmates be screened for mental illness once they are sentenced and that all corrections officers receive training on recognizing the signs of mental illness.

: "Mentally Ill Offenders in the Criminal Justice System: An Analysis and Prescription" (PDF)
The authors of this report from The Sentencing Project -- a nonprofit research and advocacy organization -- find that "mental disorders among prisoners are estimated to be at least five times more prevalent than in the general population." The report goes on to detail recommendations for improving the system, from funding alternatives to incarceration to providing better treatment to mentally ill parolees.

: "Prisons and Jails: Hospitals of Last Resort"
A study of the mentally ill in New York's criminal justice system, conducted by the Correctional Association of New York and the Urban Justice Center. The study found that 15-20 percent of city jail inmates were mentally ill, as well as 7-8 percent of state prisoners. "The vast majority of people with mental illness in the criminal justice system are not dangerous and are not incarcerated for long," the report states. The central premise of the report, its authors say, "is that people with mental illness rarely belong in jail and prison." Among their recommendations, the authors say that mentally ill patients should be diverted from the criminal justice system into mental health facilities and that the "continuum of care" extend beyond discharge.
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Those are examples of the results of behavior, not what you stated.
Would you care to try again, to support your comment?
 
Google it yourself & stop playing the role of a fuckin moron.............:palm:

There is no place for them & you damn well know it............
 
sear said:
But even if so,
not necessarily so.

Should we not privatize ANY operation performed by government?
In New York State, automobiles require inspection once per year. The inspections are performed by licensed, private garages.
But in the '60's (I don't know how they do it now) their yearly inspection was performed by NJ State Troopers.

The private approach in NY works fine. & it's a bargain, $21.oo
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Automobile inspections are what I catagorise as a K MART market; everyone needs it. Prisons are not a KMART market.
Furthermore privatization is an obviousvtrap. If a Corp can make a profit and do the job than the gov. Can do the job for less. If that isn't the case then better scrutiny is what is called for, not crony capitalism/fascism which is what privatization can ONLY be.
 
Bill said:
Google it yourself & stop playing the role of a fuckin moron.............:palm:

There is no place for them & you damn well know it............
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Freedom is an almost illiterate troll and also a complete badge blower.
I keep him on ignore, useful content from him is non existant.
 
anatta said:
amazing it's only that many..have you seen "rush hour trains" in India? This is Bangladesh, but India isn't too far off

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That is what is reported, I would imagine just slip off & are never reported........

Nice ride until someone sneezes or has to take a piss.:rolleyes:
 
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