A Failed Presidency -- The American Problem

Bush crashed the economy, I missed the part where he sold or bought the shitty mortgages.
And Obama bailing out the culprits wasn't the smartest move ever.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
What horseshit. Churchill didn't have a dysfunctional political system to deal with. It doesn't matter who is president, if it's a Democrat, the House and the Senate minority aren't going to do anything that the president wants. Period. No amount of speechifying and leadering can force Congress to do anything other than what Congress wants to do. Right now, Congress doesn't want to do anything to improve the economy and will not do anything to improve the economy. Hell, the Republicans rejected a tax cut. When's the last time that happened?
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I said it wasn't all his fault. No doubt, the GOP Congress has made it their mission to bring him down, and have rejected common sense measures that would help the economy & average Americans to do so.

That said, perception is everytihng in politics. Obama has lost a tremendous amount of clout; he is perceived as someone who cannot bridge the partisan gap.
 
Onceler said:
Gergen wrote this morning that we need a leader like Churchill right now. I would agree with that, but I don't see anyone in the wings even remotely close to that. Romney is such an empty suit, and a follower - it actually bums me out that he is the best the GOP seems able to do at this point.

I think Obama is done; I don't think it's entirely his fault, but he has lost too much clout at this point to lead effectively. I actually think he'll be relieved if he doesn't get another term.

Still, the future doesn't look great unless someone amazing comes out of the woodwork on either side...
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A Churchill, a Lincoln or an FDR would be nice but American history tends to shy away from the great political leaders until we go from crises to disasster. We're simply not ready yet for a leader of that caliber cause conditions just aren't bad enough......yet.

As for Obama......don't read to much into the polls. I'm certainly a social liberal but fairly moderate to conservative on economics (I believ it was Nixon who said "We are all Keynesians) and I could be accurately described as a Rockefeller Republican for the 24 years I was a registered Republican and trust me Obama is not done. In fact, I think the data is clear that if Repelicans nominate anyone other than Romney, Obama would win by an electoral land slide. If Romney is elected my prediction is that the election will be very thight and will probably boil down to turn out and who's base is the most motivated. There's a lot of time for things to happen between now and 2012 and, if nominated I have to give Romney serious consideration.....but not if he's hamstrung by a far right wing tea bag party plastform.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
A Churchill, a Lincoln or an FDR would be nice but American history tends to shy away from the great political leaders until we go from crises to disasster. We're simply not ready yet for a leader of that caliber cause conditions just aren't bad enough......yet.

As for Obama......don't read to much into the polls. I'm certainly a social liberal but fairly moderate to conservative on economics (I believ it was Nixon who said "We are all Keynesians) and I could be accurately described as a Rockefeller Republican for the 24 years I was a registered Republican and trust me Obama is not done. In fact, I think the data is clear that if Repelicans nominate anyone other than Romney, Obama would win by an electoral land slide. If Romney is elected my prediction is that the election will be very thight and will probably boil down to turn out and who's base is the most motivated. There's a lot of time for things to happen between now and 2012 and, if nominated I have to give Romney serious consideration.....but not if he's hamstrung by a far right wing tea bag party plastform.
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People vote their wallet. With what happened over the weekend, there is almost no chance that this economy will be in good enough standing for Obama to win next year.

Anything can happen, of course; a guy like Romney can easily blow it. But he'd have to blow it for Obama to win.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
What horseshit. Churchill didn't have a dysfunctional political system to deal with. It doesn't matter who is president, if it's a Democrat, the House and the Senate minority aren't going to do anything that the president wants. Period. No amount of speechifying and leadering can force Congress to do anything other than what Congress wants to do. Right now, Congress doesn't want to do anything to improve the economy and will not do anything to improve the economy. Hell, the Republicans rejected a tax cut. When's the last time that happened?
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What's the saying "You get the government you deserve."?

Can we really be suprized at what's happening? The people voted for divided government and that is what we now have. I don't see the insulated political cuture in DC changing anytime soon and it will probably take some sort of national disaster before such change does occur. I'm not as pessimistic as many people seem to be. That road leads to frustration and anger which in turn leads to extremism and disaster.

I see our nations biggest problem as the growing wealth disparity between the very wealthy and the middle class. Much of this is the middle classes fault for allowing politicians to use divide and conquer strategies to persuade middle class Americans to vote against their economic interest.

In the last 40 years there has been an explosive growth in productivity and wealth in this nation. Virtually all of it has gone to the top 1%. When adjusted for inflation the median household income has not risen in 40 years. When one also considers that 40 years ago most households had one income earner and not two the actual figure, when adjusted for inflation, is that median household incomes have decreased in the last 40 years by 25 to 30%. That sort of economic disparity and imbalance cannot go on for ever. It's bad for our nation in almost every sense and I see that adjustments in this disparity will occur before it reaches a "disastrous" stage.
 
Damn Yankee said:
Please expound, 15ppMoot, what is their "economic interest" that you speak? :)
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Well, for example, closing loopholes which you defended previously today, that ONLY the very wealthy & big corps can take advantage of (things like having a PO box abroad to avoid paying, so the burden goes to average Americans).

Stuff like that...
 
Mott the Hoople said:
What's the saying "You get the government you deserve."?

Can we really be suprized at what's happening? The people voted for divided government and that is what we now have. I don't see the insulated political cuture in DC changing anytime soon and it will probably take some sort of national disaster before such change does occur. I'm not as pessimistic as many people seem to be. That road leads to frustration and anger which in turn leads to extremism and disaster.

I see our nations biggest problem as the growing wealth disparity between the very wealthy and the middle class. Much of this is the middle classes fault for allowing politicians to use divide and conquer strategies to persuade middle class Americans to vote against their economic interest.

In the last 40 years there has been an explosive growth in productivity and wealth in this nation. Virtually all of it has gone to the top 1%. When adjusted for inflation the median household income has not risen in 40 years. When one also considers that 40 years ago most households had one income earner and not two the actual figure, when adjusted for inflation, is that median household incomes have decreased in the last 40 years by 25 to 30%. That sort of economic disparity and imbalance cannot go on for ever. It's bad for our nation in almost every sense and I see that adjustments in this disparity will occur before it reaches a "disastrous" stage.
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people who know a lot about inflation don't go around comparing income to inflation
 
It's a dumb point, if you ever get more economically astute you will know why.

Maybe both parties have been tied to wall street a long time. Presidents lose in bad economies, which better change come 2012 or he's done.
 
poet said:
Precisely. The only way a president can have a successful presidency is if he can expect and receive a modicum of cooperation and bi-partisanship from the other side of the aisle. There has been zero for this president.
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the last 4 years...
 
Translation for bravs: we have tried to model the GOP on how people like Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank & Maxine Waters see things, and I think we've succeeded!
 
bravo said:
the last 4 years...
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A soundbite video from Fox News? That's your response? Fox is the most biased "news source" of all. The Republicans made clear, from day one of Obama's presidency, that they weren't going to cooperate with him....and since they had no clue as to what he was going to do, what could have been their motivation? Racism, ideology , and partisanship. Get the fuck outta here.
 
Onceler said:
People vote their wallet. With what happened over the weekend, there is almost no chance that this economy will be in good enough standing for Obama to win next year.

Anything can happen, of course; a guy like Romney can easily blow it. But he'd have to blow it for Obama to win.
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That's not my point Oncie. I don't give a rats ass about Obama. Obama or Romney or just about any other "Top Down Leader" aint going to pulll a rabitt out of his hat and make it all better. Hell will freeze over first. If we of the middle class want to create better economic conditions for our selves and have government that is more responsive to our needs then it will have to be a grass roots effort. Praying for some leader to come save our asses is a waste of time. We need to get off our asses and do it our selves. Starting at home and where we live and work.
 
these people who keep saying middle class isn't represented by republicans are blind.
Though they won't do what it takes for the most part, nearly all middle class want the opportunity to get rich of for thier kids to get rich. So they don't share the blast the rich that turbo-libs love so much.
 
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