A Civil Discussion: Evolution, Science, Theology, Atheism, Climate

Truth Detector said:
I did read it. It contained nothing that could be mistaken for scientific. So again I would ask; if WE truly had EVOLVED from apes, how then could there still be apes? I mean, was a special type of APE we EVOLVED from to explain the disconnect?

It is like the THEORY of man caused global warming; it just doesn't square with the FACT that the planet has been warming and cooling for many millions of years before man even existed.
Click to expand...

Because evolution -branches-, it doesn't have an end destination. That's why the article describes apes as our cousins, I am not my cousin, but I'm still part of the same family with a common ancestor. The cousin analogy just helps to illustrate a process that takes millions of years into something we can more easily comprehend.

And as for your second thought, how does it not "square"? Is there a climate scientist somewhere saying the Earth hasn't warmed or cooled in the past?
 
Leonthecat said:
He is afraid that if he recognizes how insane his irrational beliefs are that he will not get to go to heaven.
As silly and childish as that appears to be on the surface that is the sad truth.
Adult people are arguing for their need to believe childish fantasies about living forever.
Click to expand...

You still can't grasp the debate here. It's about adult discussions without the snark of emotional attachments to attempts to humiliate an opposing point of view.
 
Leonthecat said:
There is your adult civil conversation.
No one can discuss anything with that fundamental of a level of insanity.
You may as well try to debate quantum physics with a garden snail.
Click to expand...

I'm beginning to see that this is the wrong Forum to have started this thread. Next time I'll try the Above Plain Politics Forum.
 
Leonthecat said:
You believe insane concepts are real. You need some humility.
Click to expand...

Humility is connected with person'e attitude and demeanor, not what their belief is on a particular topic.

You condemn people with opposing points of view instead of simply condemning the actual point of view...no humility there.
 
Stretch said:
Humility is connected with person'e attitude and demeanor, not what their belief is on a particular topic.

You condemn people with opposing points of view instead of simply condemning the actual point of view...no humility there.
Click to expand...

Well when the opposing point of view essentially boils down to "because magic"... c'mon.
 
Hello Stretch,

Stretch said:
Humility is connected with person'e attitude and demeanor, not what their belief is on a particular topic.

You condemn people with opposing points of view instead of simply condemning the actual point of view...no humility there.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I'm all about civil discourse but I also like to see a discussion move along. Not enough activity in APP for me. That produces a conundrum. Trying to have civil discussions in a largely uncivil Forum. Hence I have strong use of the Ignore feature. I pretty much don't read responses to those on my list, either. There are some very good minds capable of intellectual discussions here, so that's what keeps me around.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Stretch,



Well said.

I'm all about civil discourse but I also like to see a discussion move along. Not enough activity in APP for me. That produces a conundrum. Trying to have civil discussions in a largely uncivil Forum. Hence I have strong use of the Ignore feature. I pretty much don't read responses to those on my list, either. There are some very good minds capable of intellectual discussions here, so that's what keeps me around.
Click to expand...

JPP is run by libertarians, with a libertarian philosophy. More emphasis on freedom than on discourse & quality. Part of me applauds that, but the board really does suffer as a result. Too many people just come here to insult & ridicule, and have no interest in debate.

It's an interesting metaphor for the idea of a libertarian society. We would be more free - but probably not as good.
 
Hello intellectuals,

As to the Topic:

I don't believe there is a creator or an afterlife. I have faith in humanity to solve our problems and improve our own condition over time. There will be set-backs along the way, but humanity shall prevail and get better. I like science. I see no need for religion, aside from providing a moral compass for some, and a socialization vehicle for most.

Eternal life makes no sense. It is highly audacious to believe that new lives can be created, but that they last forever. And the thing about humans being different from animals and having a 'soul?' All I can say is it must have been a human who came up with that concept. How convenient for humans to think they are so special.

We should be moral because it makes sense to be. If we didn't do that, then humanity would destroy itself. If we didn't work together to build things, and instead we all simply stole from one another, then nothing would ever get built because there would be no point if it is only going to get stolen.

Sorry, I am not going to spend 40 minutes watching a video in order to have a discussion on a Topic I already have given much thought to.

Scientology is a cult. Religion and science are diametrically opposed. I've read plenty of arguments by those who think they can believe in both over the years and none has ever convinced me.

If this creator created the universe, why?

What purpose would be served for the creator?

Is it all for his amusement or entertainment?

And what was this creator doing prior to creating the universe?

btw, the Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It's the earth and heavens. That story has already been disproved by science. The Earth is 4 billion years old, and was around for a long time with no life. Life came slowly, and existed a long time prior to the appearance of humans. We are not so special. We evolved. Evolution makes way more sense than creation.
 
Stretch said:
Humility is connected with person'e attitude and demeanor, not what their belief is on a particular topic.

You condemn people with opposing points of view instead of simply condemning the actual point of view...no humility there.
Click to expand...

Right. And your demeanor is that what you believe is correct no matter how insane it really is . When you recognize that what you say is real requires a level of insanity to hold as true . Then I will acknowledge a modicum of humility in you.
What you claim is a "point of view" is in fact a manifestation of your willful insanity.

You believe that you will live forever. That cannot be described as anything but insane.
 
NOVA said:
You're gonna have to ban a hell of a lot more pinhead liberals if you want a civil discussion on any topic....
Click to expand...

Cry_Me_A_River.gif
 
Stretch said:
I'm beginning to see that this is the wrong Forum to have started this thread. Next time I'll try the Above Plain Politics Forum.
Click to expand...

You may find people willing to recognize your insanity as a point of view and it looks like that is what you need.
I will not concede that a belief in the supernatural is a "point of view".
 
Mr.Badguy said:
You obviously didn't read it. Apes DID evolve, into what you see now.

Becoming human isn't the ultimate goal for every species, if apes can survive and thrive in whatever environment they're in, they have no reason to develop traits other than what they already have.
Click to expand...

TD is merely demonstrating his, and many RW religious zealot's, massive ignorance on evolutionary theory
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello intellectuals,

As to the Topic:

I don't believe there is a creator or an afterlife. I have faith in humanity to solve our problems and improve our own condition over time. There will be set-backs along the way, but humanity shall prevail and get better. I like science. I see no need for religion, aside from providing a moral compass for some, and a socialization vehicle for most.

Eternal life makes no sense. It is highly audacious to believe that new lives can be created, but that they last forever. And the thing about humans being different from animals and having a 'soul?' All I can say is it must have been a human who came up with that concept. How convenient for humans to think they are so special.

We should be moral because it makes sense to be. If we didn't do that, then humanity would destroy itself. If we didn't work together to build things, and instead we all simply stole from one another, then nothing would ever get built because there would be no point if it is only going to get stolen.

Sorry, I am not going to spend 40 minutes watching a video in order to have a discussion on a Topic I already have given much thought to.

Scientology is a cult. Religion and science are diametrically opposed. I've read plenty of arguments by those who think they can believe in both over the years and none has ever convinced me.

If this creator created the universe, why?

What purpose would be served for the creator?

Is it all for his amusement or entertainment?

And what was this creator doing prior to creating the universe?

btw, the Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It's the earth and heavens. That story has already been disproved by science. The Earth is 4 billion years old, and was around for a long time with no life. Life came slowly, and existed a long time prior to the appearance of humans. We are not so special. We evolved. Evolution makes way more sense than creation.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
PoliTalker said:
I don't believe there is a creator or an afterlife.
Click to expand...
Then how did it all get created if there wasn't a creator or creators?
Scientology is a cult.
Click to expand...
Correct.
Religion and science are diametrically opposed. I've read plenty of arguments by those who think they can believe in both over the years and none has ever convinced me.
Click to expand...
Within the matrix of the visible (and invisible) stuff that was created also lies the "science" that was created along with it.
If this creator created the universe, why?
Click to expand...
Could be he's creative by nature. Humans are. And humans were created in his image, correct?
What purpose would be served for the creator?
Is it all for his amusement or entertainment?
And what was this creator doing prior to creating the universe?
Click to expand...
For someone to hang with and to talk about "things" and such. (See the story of Adam & Eve.)
btw, the Bible doesn't talk about the universe. It's the earth and heavens. That story has already been disproved by science. The Earth is 4 billion years old, and was around for a long time with no life. Life came slowly, and existed a long time prior to the appearance of humans. We are not so special. We evolved. Evolution makes way more sense than creation.
Click to expand...
On earth as it is in the heavens, things work because of a slew of conditions that came before them, mostly. For example, oil and gas is in the ground and it took millions of years to get there. Many minerals, like gold, etc..., are extracted from fissures and layers of rock that are all twisted and warped. That also took quite a while. (And I don't believe I have to explain the "science" behind those two examples.)
There very well could have been a good reason for it to have been created that way. Reasons we don't yet understand. But that's the way it is and also gives man an opportunity to use those "things that work" for us in which we were given the ability to figure out.
Making those "things that work" obviously took time to make. Six days, according to the Bible. But that doesn't necessarily mean that a day to us is the same as a day to the creator(s).
So, my question to you is: "Why wouldn't this great creation be created without a history behind it?"
 
Stretch said:
True science has no argument with Scripture. The word science simply means knowledge. That’s why we say God is omniscient, we put the word science with omni, all knowing. True knowledge, true science has no argument with Scripture because the Creator is the author of Scripture and He is the one who determined the way things are and He knows the way things are because He made them the way they are. Never has science disproven one thing in the Bible. They’re still working at it. The Word of God stands the test of all the poundings that it has taken from so-called science and pseudo-science.

Science deals with a matrix when we’re talking about natural science. We’re talking about the way things are in a material universe, there is a matrix of things. Herbert Spencer’s great achievement, he died in 1903.......He said, “Everything in the universe can be deposited in one of these categories…time, force, action, space and matter.” Those five things which he defined in that order are all in Genesis 1, “In the beginning…that’s time…God…that’s force…created…that’s action…the heavens…that’s space…and the earth…that’s matter.” The matrix is in Genesis 1:1, that is a profound scientific statement. The universe in essence is a matrix of space, time, matter and energy. And all of it has to be existing at the same conflux. It all has to come together or none of it exists. One cannot exist without the other. The entire continuum must have existed simultaneously from the beginning. That is why you find it all in Genesis 1:1, it all had to be there. Science says it has to be there and Scripture says it is there.
Click to expand...

circular_bible.jpg
 
Stretch said:
Humility is connected with person'e attitude and demeanor, not what their belief is on a particular topic.

You condemn people with opposing points of view instead of simply condemning the actual point of view...no humility there.
Click to expand...

You hold beliefs that are insane. I call that insane behavior. I call people who practice insane behavior as a matter of course insane people.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top