4th Amendments thoughts...

Jarod

Jarod

Well-known member
Contributor
So this weekend I was out on a boat I share with my sister. I had my three kids and wife with me, but I was being Capitan.

As we were heading out the inlet, I was teaching my son to drive. The boat was sluggish because it was full of fuel and sitting very heavy in the water. My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction. A Sherriff boat was heading toward us while this maneuver occurred. At no time was anyone in any danger and we did not come close to the dock in question.

The Sheriff boat came close to me and told me to kill the engine, he was boarding. I obeyed and he died his vessel up to mine and preceded to ask a series of questions, requesting to see the registration, hear the horn, see the life vests, and fire extinguisher. We had all the required safety equipment. He then took the time to call in the registration. In all the stop took 15 min's.

What are your thoughts, was this stop a violation of the 4th Amendment? Was his inspection of by boat an unreasonable search? The Florida Supreme Court says no. While, on a purely selfish personal level, I am glad the local police are doing this, because there is a lot of unsafe boating in my area, I believe stopping boats without Reasonable suspicion of a criminal violation is a violation of my Constitutional rights.

What are your thoughts?
 
Jarod said:
So this weekend I was out on a boat I share with my sister. I had my three kids and wife with me, but I was being Capitan.

As we were heading out the inlet, I was teaching my son to drive. The boat was sluggish because it was full of fuel and sitting very heavy in the water. My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction. A Sherriff boat was heading toward us while this maneuver occurred. At no time was anyone in any danger and we did not come close to the dock in question.

The Sheriff boat came close to me and told me to kill the engine, he was boarding. I obeyed and he died his vessel up to mine and preceded to ask a series of questions, requesting to see the registration, hear the horn, see the life vests, and fire extinguisher. We had all the required safety equipment. He then took the time to call in the registration. In all the stop took 15 min's.

What are your thoughts, was this stop a violation of the 4th Amendment? Was his inspection of by boat an unreasonable search? The Florida Supreme Court says no. While, on a purely selfish personal level, I am glad the local police are doing this, because there is a lot of unsafe boating in my area, I believe stopping boats without Reasonable suspicion of a criminal violation is a violation of my Constitutional rights.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think the Florida Supreme Court got it right. This basically sounds like the water version of a highway safety checkpoint.

The people have a compelling public interest in ensuring safety on the waterways.
 
Taft2016 said:
I think the Florida Supreme Court got it right. This basically sounds like the water version of a highway safety checkpoint.

The people have a compelling public interest in ensuring safety on the waterways.
Click to expand...

So you don't believe that the 4th is Absolute?
 
Rune said:
In what manner do you think the sherrif violated your 4th rights Jarod?
Click to expand...

He stopped me and searched my vessel without reasonable suspicion that I was committing a crime. I was literally legally compelled to comply with his request to submit my boat to a government inspection.
 
Taft2016 said:
I think the Florida Supreme Court got it right. This basically sounds like the water version of a highway safety checkpoint.

The people have a compelling public interest in ensuring safety on the waterways.
Click to expand...

So do you believe police should legally allowed to randomly pull vehicles over on the highway to inspect them?
 
Jarod said:
He stopped me and searched my vessel without reasonable suspicion that I was committing a crime. I was literally legally compelled to comply with his request to submit my boat to a government inspection.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it sounds like a waterways version of the safety checkpoint. Perhaps if some contraband is found and arrest is made, it might head for the US Supreme Court. But meanwhile, Florida says it's legal.

I've had bay constables ask to see my bait when I was fishing, to see if I was fishing for fish out of season. I wasn't, and concluded the encounter without feeling violated.
 
Taft2016 said:
Are you sure you're an attorney? "Random" does not fit the criteria of a safety checkpoint.
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I agree, but as described, the officer pulled me over randomly. Your the one who called it a safety checkpoint, not me.
 
Taft2016 said:
Like I said, it sounds like a waterways version of the safety checkpoint. Perhaps if some contraband is found and arrest is made, it might head for the US Supreme Court. But meanwhile, Florida says it's legal.

I've had bay constables ask to see my bait when I was fishing, to see if I was fishing for fish out of season. I wasn't, and concluded the encounter without feeling violated.
Click to expand...


This was random, this guy was not pulling over every boat in the waterway, he simply randomly picked me out of the many boats in the area.
 
Jarod said:
This was random, this guy was not pulling over every boat in the waterway, he simply randomly picked me out of the many boats in the area.
Click to expand...

Again, are you sure you're an attorney?

Not stopping every boat does not necessarily mean "random." When they perform these checks on roadways the police have to have a predetermined formula in place such as "every fifth vehicle", etc. The stops must be systematic and not arbitrary.

Unless you were observing the sheriff all along the process, you wouldn't know if the stop was systematic or arbitrary. That being the case, of course it would seem arbitrary to you.


http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...on=display_arch&article_id=234&issue_id=32004
 
Jarod said:
So this weekend I was out on a boat I share with my sister. I had my three kids and wife with me, but I was being Capitan.

As we were heading out the inlet, I was teaching my son to drive. The boat was sluggish because it was full of fuel and sitting very heavy in the water. My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction. A Sherriff boat was heading toward us while this maneuver occurred. At no time was anyone in any danger and we did not come close to the dock in question.

The Sheriff boat came close to me and told me to kill the engine, he was boarding. I obeyed and he died his vessel up to mine and preceded to ask a series of questions, requesting to see the registration, hear the horn, see the life vests, and fire extinguisher. We had all the required safety equipment. He then took the time to call in the registration. In all the stop took 15 min's.

What are your thoughts, was this stop a violation of the 4th Amendment? Was his inspection of by boat an unreasonable search? The Florida Supreme Court says no. While, on a purely selfish personal level, I am glad the local police are doing this, because there is a lot of unsafe boating in my area, I believe stopping boats without Reasonable suspicion of a criminal violation is a violation of my Constitutional rights.

What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
What are my thoughts?

It would be nice to own a boat mother fucker. That's my thoughts! ;)
 
Taft2016 said:
Again, are you sure you're an attorney?

Not stopping every boat does not necessarily mean "random." When they perform these checks on roadways the police have to have a predetermined formula in place such as "every fifth vehicle", etc. The stops must be systematic and not arbitrary.

Unless you were observing the sheriff all along the process, you wouldn't know if the stop was systematic or arbitrary. That being the case, of course it would seem arbitrary to you.


http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/...on=display_arch&article_id=234&issue_id=32004
Click to expand...

I know more than I want to about such stops, so you can pretend to be mr know it all, all you chose, I don't really care.

1. This was random, I did stay in the area and watch this guy for a very long time.
2. There is no requirement that they conduct such operations in a random way on the water for searching boats, again, I know this area of the law more than I want to also.
3. My point was just that, ASSUMING what I am telling you is true, (it is, but that's besides the point) what are your thoughts?
 
Rune said:
No,you admitted to impaired opperation. He had a reason to target you.
Click to expand...

Impaired operation? The fact that we headed toward a dock for a few seconds, then corrected. To you, is that enough to make a stop and search "reasonable"?
 
Jarod said:
I know more than I want to about such stops, so you can pretend to be mr know it all, all you chose, I don't really care.

1. This was random, I did stay in the area and watch this guy for a very long time.
2. There is no requirement that they conduct such operations in a random way on the water for searching boats, again, I know this area of the law more than I want to also.
3. My point was just that, ASSUMING what I am telling you is true, (it is, but that's besides the point) what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...


1. The more you talk, the less I believe you're an attorney
2. I don't believe you knew anything about checkpoints beforehand, which is why you said it was a "random" stop.
3. I don't believe you stayed in the area and watched. You would have mentioned that initially.
4. My thoughts are, based on what you said initially, especially the ruling by the Florida Supreme Court, it's probably Constitutional. But I have no experience or knowledge of martime law.
 
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