Is America truly free?

Smarterthan\\(())// said:
I'd much prefer it if your authoritarian republican mindset would refrain from speaking or thinking about what it is I truly want. I'm betting lots of others would feel the same also.
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That's hardly what I meant by my comments. You seem to mistake criticism of your views as political repression of your free speech rights all of which is irrelevent because that is not what I was talking about.
 
The Dude said:
Gas prices are cheap
Occupiers are lazy video game dorks
Leftist unachievers use wall street as a crutch
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Yea, yea. Well just because one doesn't worship at the feet of a bunch of Wall Street banker who do tricks with money and never, ever produce anything doesn't make one a leftist. The fact is, middlemen like the guys on Wall Street do not nor ever have produced wealth. It's the people who actually produce goods and tangible services that create wealth. Capitalist provide an important function in growing and developing productive wealth but the cold hard truth is that they don't produce wealth. They consume it and they consume it disproportionately. For example. Henry Ford produced wealth, Steve Jobs produced wealth, Bill Gates produces wealth. Warren Buffet does not produce wealth. He consumes wealth by providing captial in exchange for productive wealth. A valuable service to be sure but he is not a producer of wealth.
 
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The Dude said:
Deep the dumbass. Can't have capitalism without makers u fag.
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It's the other way around Dude. You can't have capitalist with out producers you lodo! Capitalist can't do shit with out people who produce and all that has to be done to prove that is for the producers to stop producing.
 
Derp Derp said:
Yea, yea. Well just because one doesn't worship at the feet of a bunch of Wall Street banker who do tricks with money and never, ever produce anything doesn't make one a leftist. The fact is, middlemen like the guys on Wall Street do not nor ever have produced wealth. It's the people who actually produce goods and tangible services that create wealth. Capitalist provide an important function in growing and developing productive wealth but the cold hard truth is that they don't produce wealth. They consume it and they consume it disproportionately. For example. Henry Ford produced wealth, Steve Jobs produced wealth, Bill Gates produces wealth. Warren Buffet does not produce wealth. He consumes wealth by providing captial in exchange for productive wealth. A valuable service to be sure but he is not a producer of wealth.
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just, wow. I knew there were some people on here that had no clue about capitalism and economics, but holy shit you take the entire cake.
 
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever.

This is your future, prole. Your drum circle and rain dance won't save you.

​
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
only one way possible, through men of high principles in government. something that most people just don't give a fuck about. again, it's apathy.
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no government has ever existed without lobbyist.

i know you think i cave in to the "man" or whatever. but the truth is, no government on this planet can exist without lobbyist. lobbyist actually play a crucial role in our form of government. unfortunately, that role is abused, like so many other principles our country was found upon.
 
I mean there are two cases,

1) we are free - (ok no problem)
2) we're not free - (in which case your after school bongo club and poor unwashed masses aren't going to be able to do jack shit about it. They can't even pay their bills, they don't know how to accept loans without realizing they wont be able to pay it back, they are derps incarnate. you think they are going to overthrow the old regime and work on sound public policy valiantly? lol . .)

So enjoy the ride idiots.
 
Yurt said:
no government has ever existed without lobbyist.

i know you think i cave in to the "man" or whatever. but the truth is, no government on this planet can exist without lobbyist. lobbyist actually play a crucial role in our form of government. unfortunately, that role is abused, like so many other principles our country was found upon.
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the only reason that government doesn't exist without lobbyists is because the majority of the government have no connection with 'the people'. They've lived so long in the upper class, that their viewpoint on life has no basis in the reality of we the people. But no person without wealth is ever going to get voted in to office. it's a shitty system we've created.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
the only reason that government doesn't exist without lobbyists is because the majority of the government have no connection with 'the people'. They've lived so long in the upper class, that their viewpoint on life has no basis in the reality of we the people. But no person without wealth is ever going to get voted in to office. it's a shitty system we've created.
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i see your point. i didn't mean to suggest lobbyist only exist in an elitist form of government. even in a pure socialist form of government, lobbying is necessary.

as to people without wealth being voted into office...there are numerous examples of reps doing just that, less so for senators and i would argue that clinton and obama were not wealthy when voted into office. the reality is, that yes, the rich have more power because any economy that has ever existed on this planet revolves around wealth or riches. there are, however, influential people, like christ (if you don't believe in god and believe him a mere human), gandhi etc....who have changed the world, been leaders of the world and had no real earthly wealth.

that said, as a whole, only the rich have control. my question is, how do you delegate control? by arms? by physical stature? by money? by the populace? or are we all on our own?
 
Yurt said:
i see your point. i didn't mean to suggest lobbyist only exist in an elitist form of government. even in a pure socialist form of government, lobbying is necessary.

as to people without wealth being voted into office...there are numerous examples of reps doing just that, less so for senators and i would argue that clinton and obama were not wealthy when voted into office. the reality is, that yes, the rich have more power because any economy that has ever existed on this planet revolves around wealth or riches. there are, however, influential people, like christ (if you don't believe in god and believe him a mere human), gandhi etc....who have changed the world, been leaders of the world and had no real earthly wealth.

that said, as a whole, only the rich have control. my question is, how do you delegate control? by arms? by physical stature? by money? by the populace? or are we all on our own?
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by arms. that is how the founders intended for 'we the people' to retain power. it's also how republicans and democrats pit us against each other in order to weaken us by lesser arms.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
by arms. that is how the founders intended for 'we the people' to retain power. it's also how republicans and democrats pit us against each other in order to weaken us by lesser arms.
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what do you mean? that the founders intended us to have unlimited rights to all arms?

yes...we are having this same discussion again.
 
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