Is America truly free?

W

wiseones2cents

Verified User
I went fishing the other day and there was this old man fishing. We started to chat and I mentioned how disgusted I was with the high gas prices. He said he has cut down on his fishing too. I stated I do not know why people are not protesting in the streets. He said people are too busy being working(being slaves). I also think they are kept distracted by drugs, alcohol, immorality(porn, prostitution), tv, sports, ect..

And when we complain, you'd think they'd lower prices but they higher them, with the startegy of forcing more into submission(financial woes). We omplain then it goes down a bit mut remains high and they laugh all the wya to the bank.

But then the conversation got interesting. He stated even if they were to complain? If wouldn't change anything. Dont you watch TV? They would call the cops to break the protests up and arrest you. I said not if the crowds were large enough. He replied, the rich would kill you before they gave up their power.

They'd probably start a war with a foreign country and put all those complainers on the front lines. Like they did with the poor in the past.

How many people believe this to be true? I have heard this belief many times. My dad being one of them.

If push came to shove and the people rose up and nationalized the oil companies(cut out all the middle men and there are many)? What would the rich do? Roll over and play dead? Or invest their money in a foreign military and invade us to regain control? Which is exactly what they did in history.
 
the government has unlimited resources to bear in order to quell dissent. only in the face of a massive uprising would anything ever be done according to the masses desires, which is why they constantly impress upon the proles that the left/right is trying to destroy america.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
the government has unlimited resources to bear in order to quell dissent. only in the face of a massive uprising would anything ever be done according to the masses desires, which is why they constantly impress upon the proles that the left/right is trying to destroy america.
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Yes but it will be difficult for the government to get the military and cops(who TRULY pay their wages) to turn on the people. Look at that soldier that got demoted because he stated he would excercise his right to refuse orders if those orders included attacking civilians and he had every right to!

It is an old school tactic. Divide and conquer. Keep the right and left fighting each other while the people at the top are robbing us unhindered. If they were to join and see the true enemy? Change would come. That is why I wanted to see the Tea Party and Occupy party join forces in common goals.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Yes but it will be difficult for the government to get the military and cops(who TRULY pay their wages) to turn on the people. Look at that soldier that got demoted because he stated he would excercise his right to refuse orders if those orders included attacking civilians and he had every right to!
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think about this for a second. This soldier was punished for stating his refusal to follow an unconstitutional or illegal order. How many others after this do you think will refuse to obey an order now? People need to not only remember the words from the EPA dude and how they would receive immediate obedience to it's regulations. That is how government works.

wiseones2cents said:
It is an old school tactic. Divide and conquer. Keep the right and left fighting each other while the people at the top are robbing us unhindered. If they were to join and see the true enemy? Change would come. That is why I wanted to see the Tea Party and Occupy party join forces in common goals.
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and they would have also, except for the infiltration of people who definitely didn't want that to happen. The accusations of racism and the anti gun hysteria were all designed to separate those two forces from joining together.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
think about this for a second. This soldier was punished for stating his refusal to follow an unconstitutional or illegal order. How many others after this do you think will refuse to obey an order now? People need to not only remember the words from the EPA dude and how they would receive immediate obedience to it's regulations. That is how government works.

and they would have also, except for the infiltration of people who definitely didn't want that to happen. The accusations of racism and the anti gun hysteria were all designed to separate those two forces from joining together.
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OK, so now that we all agree the TP has been corrupted, what say we support occupy?
 
Wall street is the problem. The only was to defang wall street is to outlaw all lobbyists, so congress crtitters work for their true employers, the people.
 
wiseones2cents said:
I went fishing the other day and there was this old man fishing. We started to chat and I mentioned how disgusted I was with the high gas prices. He said he has cut down on his fishing too. I stated I do not know why people are not protesting in the streets. He said people are too busy being working(being slaves). I also think they are kept distracted by drugs, alcohol, immorality(porn, prostitution), tv, sports, ect..

And when we complain, you'd think they'd lower prices but they higher them, with the startegy of forcing more into submission(financial woes). We omplain then it goes down a bit mut remains high and they laugh all the wya to the bank.

But then the conversation got interesting. He stated even if they were to complain? If wouldn't change anything. Dont you watch TV? They would call the cops to break the protests up and arrest you. I said not if the crowds were large enough. He replied, the rich would kill you before they gave up their power.

They'd probably start a war with a foreign country and put all those complainers on the front lines. Like they did with the poor in the past.

How many people believe this to be true? I have heard this belief many times. My dad being one of them.

If push came to shove and the people rose up and nationalized the oil companies(cut out all the middle men and there are many)? What would the rich do? Roll over and play dead? Or invest their money in a foreign military and invade us to regain control? Which is exactly what they did in history.
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I think this is one of those dumb philosophical questions. Is anyone "truly" free? Does anyone really want to be completely and "truly" free? That we have enumerated rights that a government cannot abridge are what we conventionally call "freedom" but in reality we all have our freedoms hedged in by government, society, our communities, our culture, our peers and our friends and family. We even limit our own freedoms in order to meet obligations and responsibilities we believe that we have for others. So no one is ever "truly" free nor would you want to be if you really thought about it.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
only one way possible, through men of high principles in government. something that most people just don't give a fuck about. again, it's apathy.
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It's not apathy. Lot's of people want principled rulers. The problem is the present entrenched government is owned by wall street. Wall street is paying them through lobbyists. It is a very effective system. Wall street pays for the laws they want and gets them. You are still standing on hoped for principals, rather than recognising the truth of the situation. The problem eminates
from wall street and must be delt with there. There is no other way.
 
Derp Derp said:
I think this is one of those dumb philosophical questions. Is anyone "truly" free? Does anyone really want to be completely and "truly" free? That we have enumerated rights that a government cannot abridge are what we conventionally call "freedom" but in reality we all have our freedoms hedged in by government, society, our communities, our culture, our peers and our friends and family. We even limit our own freedoms in order to meet obligations and responsibilities we believe that we have for others. So no one is ever "truly" free nor would you want to be if you really thought about it.
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I'd much prefer it if your authoritarian republican mindset would refrain from speaking or thinking about what it is I truly want. I'm betting lots of others would feel the same also.
 
Rune said:
It's not apathy. Lot's of people want principled rulers. The problem is the present entrenched government is owned by wall street. Wall street is paying them through lobbyists. It is a very effective system. Wall street pays for the laws they want and gets them. You are still standing on hoped for principals, rather than recognising the truth of the situation. The problem eminates
from wall street and must be delt with there. There is no other way.
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congress writes the laws. protesting wall street is only going to get you more laws designed to restrict protests on wall street. Unless you strike the entity that writes the laws, your movement is doomed. there is no other way.
 
Smarterthan\\(())// said:
congress writes the laws. protesting wall street is only going to get you more laws designed to restrict protests on wall street. Unless you strike the entity that writes the laws, your movement is doomed. there is no other way.
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The movement was doomed before it started, as is any like movement. The oligarhs will not relinquish controll.
The wall street movement at least has potential to sway economic benefit at least slightly back in the right direction.
Nothing you propose has any chance at all.
 
Rune said:
The movement was doomed before it started, as is any like movement. The oligarhs will not relinquish controll.
The wall street movement at least has potential to sway economic benefit at least slightly back in the right direction.
Nothing you propose has any chance at all.
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you should change your name to don quixote jr. because going after wall street is like tilting at a windmill. you will fail.
 
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