No support for idiots supporting terrorists

WinterBorn said:
And?? You want a guarantee if safety? It ain't happening in a free society.

Given the choice between freedom or safety, which do you choose??
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You don't have to choose now and didn't before.....its always been a balancing act between the two....

I'm surprised your sight is so narrow that you've failed to see that fact......

Every law on the books limits our freedoms to a degree, in some fashion....and these things will change as

the world changes ......
 
Alias said:
I'll follow the wretched refuse American citizens that wrote the bill. I disagree with you that the two are not compatible. If they were "wretched refuse" then you might have a point. That's just your opinion. It would really be a tragedy for you to act with violence against the American authorities who enforce our laws. You might want to talk to someone before you do that.
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Hmmm, so if they wrote a bill to ban private ownership of firearms, you would go along with it because it would save lives?

How about freedom of speech? Would we all be safer if no one were allowed to say anti-gov't stuff? Or write about it in the press?

Those pesky search seizure laws should be removed. Think of how many people we could save if we could just go in people's homes and look for bad stuff.

And why can't Congress just pass laws that change the US Constitution to be more modern and more helpful in our war on terrorism??





Now you may claim those are all strawman arguments, but they are exactly what this bill aims to do to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments to the US Constitution.

Has it ever made you wonder that the first 10 amendments are called the Bill of Rights, and that fully half of those amendments have to do with how the gov't tries and punishes its citizens?
 
WinterBorn said:
I am always careful. But I will say this. Many years ago I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I took that oath seriously, and still consider myself bound by it.

In order to defend the US Constitution from so blatant an attack, I would gladly join and armed revolution. Anyone supporting this bill is a traitor to this nation and an enemy of the same. You want to talk about taking things seriously? I take the US Constitution serius enough to have offered to give up my life to defend it.

As I said in the other thread about this bill, I think any senator who votes for this bill should be removed from office and tried for treason.
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Yeah, me too....but I'm not a blind drama queen......
 
bravo said:
You don't have to choose now and didn't before.....its always been a balancing act between the two....

I'm surprised your sight is so narrow that you've failed to see that fact......

Every law on the books limits our freedoms to a degree, in some fashion....and these things will change as

the world changes ......
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This law doesn't limit our freedoms to a degree. This removes a guaranteed and inalienable right.

You claim we do not have to choose, but you are choosing to throw out the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments to the US Constitution in the HOPES that it will help and with faith in the government's promise that it won't abuse it. WTF??

I am very surprised that you, who claim to be a conservative, back this bill.
 
WinterBorn said:
Him? He is a traitor??

You are trashing the US Constitution out of fear and the hopes for a false sense of security.

You are in favor of a bill that would allow our government to grab someone and ship them to Gitmo without a trial, a hearing or even giving a reason, and you call him a traitor??
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Yes......and? Somehow this idea that we are only going to pick up innocent people has crept into your mind. Does this thought keep you up at night? Have you ever considered seeking a professional to talk it over with?
 
WinterBorn said:
Hmmm, so if they wrote a bill to ban private ownership of firearms, you would go along with it because it would save lives?

How about freedom of speech? Would we all be safer if no one were allowed to say anti-gov't stuff? Or write about it in the press?

Those pesky search seizure laws should be removed. Think of how many people we could save if we could just go in people's homes and look for bad stuff.

And why can't Congress just pass laws that change the US Constitution to be more modern and more helpful in our war on terrorism??





Now you may claim those are all strawman arguments, but they are exactly what this bill aims to do to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments to the US Constitution.

Has it ever made you wonder that the first 10 amendments are called the Bill of Rights, and that fully half of those amendments have to do with how the gov't tries and punishes its citizens?
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No, I don't think a bill banning private ownership of guns would save lives.

You forget we are at war with Islamic terrorists and some of them are American citizens. War changes things dramatically. I don't think you have fully grasped that.
 
WinterBorn said:
Hmmm, so if they wrote a bill to ban private ownership of firearms, you would go along with it because it would save lives?

....thats not been said and taking an to its nth degree is typical bullshit like the lefties use every day....

How about freedom of speech? Would we all be safer if no one were allowed to say anti-gov't stuff? Or write about it in the press?

How about it....?.....it ain't totally free is it?....or don't you know its limits....?...more stupidiity

Those pesky search seizure laws should be removed. Think of how many people we could save if we could just go in people's homes and look for bad stuff.

Those pesky search and seizure are stretched by law enforcement every day of the week....and its usually upheld as legal and necessary...

And why can't Congress just pass laws that change the US Constitution to be more modern and more helpful in our war on terrorism??

They have passed laws like that in spite of the Constitution...they are more modern and more helpful in our war on terrorism....some are
written into the Patriot Act.......you do remember George Bush don't you ?.......

Now you may claim those are all strawman arguments, but they are exactly what this bill aims to do to the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments to the US Constitution.

Has it ever made you wonder that the first 10 amendments are called the Bill of Rights, and that fully half of those amendments have to do with how the gov't tries and punishes its citizens?
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And now, if the Democrats have their way.......you will be forced to by health insurance, like it or not.
 
Alias said:
Yes......and? Somehow this idea that we are only going to pick up innocent people has crept into your mind. Does this thought keep you up at night? Have you ever considered seeking a professional to talk it over with?
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Do you think that no innocent person would EVER be picked up??

You claim to be a conservative and think this blatant violation of several basic rights listed in the Bill of Rights is acceptable??
 
Alias said:
Don't bother telling me to be careful. It's gonna take much more than that to intimidate me on the internet.
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Ok, then don't tel people to be careful because some people "take it seriously" as if the ones against this bill are somehow less serious.
 
Alias said:
No, I don't think a bill banning private ownership of guns would save lives.

You forget we are at war with Islamic terrorists and some of them are American citizens. War changes things dramatically. I don't think you have fully grasped that.
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I think you have not grasped that the US Constitution is not a document of convenience.
 
bravo said:

Wrong again....what it means is your freedom to punch anyone is not absolute and is determined by circumstances.....quite simple to explain to even 6 years olds....
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you have no clear concept of the hows and whys this country was founded. the government nor the supreme court wrote the constitution. we the people did. until you can learn that, you'll not be ready to accept the truth of things
 
WinterBorn said:
This law doesn't limit our freedoms to a degree. This removes a guaranteed and inalienable right.

You claim we do not have to choose, but you are choosing to throw out the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendments to the US Constitution in the HOPES that it will help and with faith in the government's promise that it won't abuse it. WTF??

I am very surprised that you, who claim to be a conservative, back this bill.
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I think your confusing the Constitution with the unalienable rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence....
 
In 1776 Alias would have been a Brit loyalist. In 1941, he would have been a "good German". Question nothing, the government knows best. They are only here to help us. Coward.
 
bravo said:
Would there have been any reason to legally arrest, detain, or even question any of the 19 terrorists that carried out 9/11....?

They were legal....they broke no laws....they were not criminals....they were not wanted by law enforcement....

No...none.....we can't and won't even arrest, detain, illlegals that we KNOW are here against our laws.....

Given the same circumstances, those 19 could do the very same thing today as easily as they did it in 2001.....except today's laws are different and law enforcement and homeland security, the CIA and FBI and ATF have much broader freedom to act....
and as with all freedoms, they also know their freedom to act has limits....
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this is a dangerously naive view point on your part. very dangerous.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you have no clear concept of the hows and whys this country was founded. the government nor the supreme court wrote the constitution. we the people did. until you can learn that, you'll not be ready to accept the truth of things
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Seems you have no clear concept of rights....especially the rights of others, and where yours end........

There was no government or Supreme Court before to write a Constitution...

A course in Civics would do you good......you need to understand facts and not 'truth' as only you perceive it.....


Its ok that we disagree, not problem at all......
 
Socrtease said:
In 1776 Alias would have been a Brit loyalist. In 1941, he would have been a "good German". Question nothing, the government knows best. They are only here to help us. Coward.
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Oh boy. A super moderator even. How impressive. I don't think you have what it takes to flesh it out. Why dont you tell us why I would be a Brit loyalist and a "good German". I'm sure everyone is interested to hear what a super moderator has to say. Go for it.
 
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