Rep Paul Ryan's freedom of silence

poet said:
Liar. Folks could care less about the ideology or the fine print...they simply want coverage, for their health issues. You, can't speak for the majority of Americans, and I worked in healthcare for almost 20 years. Talk about something you know about.
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Cleaning the vacuum at the abortion clinic and counting little fingers and toes doesn't qualify as working in healthcare.....
 
Bfgrn said:
I don't promote all out shouting matches, but this man was not even allowed to finish his valid point before he was grabbed by 3 thugs with badges. Ryan made NO attempt to address the man and see if he would allow Ryan to answer. But the BIG point is the man did not deserve to be arrested. If he remained disruptive, he should have been ASKED to leave, without being attacked by thugs with badges.

The irony is SO FUCKING thick with you so called 'less government' types. You assholes absolutely LOVE government when it throws 71 year old people to the ground and abuses them.
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Yet if you promote ONE person doing it, how can you give HIM the right to do so and not everyone? That is the slippery slope. That is why there are Q/A periods. It provides an organized forum in which individuals can ask questions and/or express frustration with their representatives.

In a situation like the above, he should have been asked to sit down and wait for the Q/A. It appears he was and refused. Once he refused, they escorted him out. As stated before, EVERYONE in that room that came to hear their Rep speak has the RIGHT to hear what he has to say. This man was denying them that right. As for the video, we do not know what occurred prior to that time. We DO know he didn't stop when asked. Which is WHY he was asked to leave. Whether his point was valid or not, it wasn't, is irrelevant.

As for him being 'thrown to the ground', the video shows him ON the ground. It doesn't show what occurred in the hallway prior to that. The man was not attacked and he could have CHOSEN to leave peacefully. He chose instead to resist and continue on with his ill conceived tantrum. Be sure to go down to your local police station and let them know you think they are just thugs with badges.

As for the 'less government' bullshit.... it is just that... bullshit. Being for 'less government' does not equate to 'allowing anarchy'. What this man did is where anarchy begins. If you do not have an orderly process in such events, then it simply leads to shouting matches between opposing groups. The video of the tea party incident that someone posted earlier shows just that. The two groups getting in each others faces and shouting. In some situations that leads to physical confrontations, which leads us back to exactly why there are set rules to follow in such events and why people who refuse to follow said rules are asked to leave.
 
Superfreak said:
Yet if you promote ONE person doing it, how can you give HIM the right to do so and not everyone? That is the slippery slope. That is why there are Q/A periods. It provides an organized forum in which individuals can ask questions and/or express frustration with their representatives.

In a situation like the above, he should have been asked to sit down and wait for the Q/A. It appears he was and refused. Once he refused, they escorted him out. As stated before, EVERYONE in that room that came to hear their Rep speak has the RIGHT to hear what he has to say. This man was denying them that right. As for the video, we do not know what occurred prior to that time. We DO know he didn't stop when asked. Which is WHY he was asked to leave. Whether his point was valid or not, it wasn't, is irrelevant.

As for him being 'thrown to the ground', the video shows him ON the ground. It doesn't show what occurred in the hallway prior to that. The man was not attacked and he could have CHOSEN to leave peacefully. He chose instead to resist and continue on with his ill conceived tantrum. Be sure to go down to your local police station and let them know you think they are just thugs with badges.

As for the 'less government' bullshit.... it is just that... bullshit. Being for 'less government' does not equate to 'allowing anarchy'. What this man did is where anarchy begins. If you do not have an orderly process in such events, then it simply leads to shouting matches between opposing groups. The video of the tea party incident that someone posted earlier shows just that. The two groups getting in each others faces and shouting. In some situations that leads to physical confrontations, which leads us back to exactly why there are set rules to follow in such events and why people who refuse to follow said rules are asked to leave.
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As usual, you are a lying sack of shit who makes up things that never happened. We do not have video before the 71 year old man shouted out, but before he even finished his legitimate point he was physically apprehended, dragged out of the room, and thrown to the ground. You can hear one of the thugs with badges ordering him to the ground. And you can hear the man groan from physical abuse. You right wing scum are authority ass lickers.
 
Bfgrn said:
As usual, you are a lying sack of shit who makes up things that never happened. We do not have video before the 71 year old man shouted out, but before he even finished his legitimate point he was physically apprehended, dragged out of the room, and thrown to the ground. You can hear one of the thugs with badges ordering him to the ground. And you can hear the man groan from physical abuse. You right wing scum are authority ass lickers.
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Then blame the cops.
 
Bfgrn said:
As usual, you are a lying sack of shit who makes up things that never happened. We do not have video before the 71 year old man shouted out, but before he even finished his legitimate point he was physically apprehended, dragged out of the room, and thrown to the ground. You can hear one of the thugs with badges ordering him to the ground. And you can hear the man groan from physical abuse. You right wing scum are authority ass lickers.
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Again... you can say 'his legitimate point' all you want. That does NOT justify his actions. PERIOD.

You are the one making things up. He was ORDERED to get on the ground. There is NO video or evidence he was thrown to the ground. He certainly didn't appear to have been abused as he walked under his own power out of the building. You CLAIM he was groaning from abuse, yet you offer NO evidence of such. There were no groans of abuse on that video. Also, he wasn't 'dragged out'. He was escorted out by the cops. Grabbing his arm and directing him out of the room is neither 'dragging' nor abusive.

The point again, which you are clearly intent upon ignoring is that the man does NOT have the right to behave as he did. Period.
 
bravo said:
Cleaning the vacuum at the abortion clinic and counting little fingers and toes doesn't qualify as working in healthcare.....
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Certified cardiopulmonary technologist, 15 years, Texas Medical Center. Head Bronchoscopy Tech. Thank you very much. And what is it you do?
 
Superfreak said:
Again... you can say 'his legitimate point' all you want. That does NOT justify his actions. PERIOD.

You are the one making things up. He was ORDERED to get on the ground. There is NO video or evidence he was thrown to the ground. He certainly didn't appear to have been abused as he walked under his own power out of the building. You CLAIM he was groaning from abuse, yet you offer NO evidence of such. There were no groans of abuse on that video. Also, he wasn't 'dragged out'. He was escorted out by the cops. Grabbing his arm and directing him out of the room is neither 'dragging' nor abusive.

The point again, which you are clearly intent upon ignoring is that the man does NOT have the right to behave as he did. Period.
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WHERE is the video showing him walking out of the building you fucking slime ball????????

Originally from Denmark, Mr. Nielson has lived in the US for over 50 years. He's a retired union plumber who has worked hard all his life, and paid his share into the system. Ryan's comment, so easily asserted, that "entitlements are the main problem facing our economy," set him off. He hadn't planned to say anything during the luncheon, but felt he had to speak up.

He watched with increasing dismay as two people were arrested for speaking and 20 others were forcefully escorted out of the building. He had strong feelings about Ryan just standing there watching people being removed from the lunch. Ryan made numerous demeaning comments aimed at the protestors, such as "We can get her a "to go" bag!" referring to a woman being kicked out of the event and "What's unique and exciting about this is that the Rotarians got 15 bucks out of them!" as others were ejected.

One of the coordinators of the Rotary event, a local businessman, confirmed via phone today that Rotary is non-partisan, and that they wanted to hear Paul Ryan speak. I asked him "Why did Ryan have so many policemen there?" referring to the 25 or more cops from multiple jurisdictions both inside and outside of the building. He didn't know. I asked him, "Why do you think your colleagues laughed at Rep Ryan's joke regarding the ousting of the elderly man?" and he said that they didn't discuss it.

Tom Nielsen is a 71 year old man with a booming voice. He spoke out at Paul Ryan's Rotary Lunch in Greenfield, Wisconsin, last Tuesday, and was summarily escorted from the room, pushed to the floor, handcuffed, and ejected from the building. He was given municipal citations for violations of 2 city ordinances: resisting arrest and trespassing - even though he had purchased an event ticket.

I just conducted a phone interview with Tom Nielsen, the man mentioned above:

Describe what happened to you?

I had a ticket for the event, so it is not trespassing. I no more than voiced my opinion. I'm 6'4, 235 pounds but recently had a car accident and a broken clavicle. I told the policemen that. They were not too impressed. One policeman had my head down on the ground, and was six inches from my face, growling and snarling at me. I was worried about my shoulder, and said please don't hurt me. I said it five times. It fell to deaf ears. I was not a danger to anybody. Why throw me on the ground and cuff me with plastic handcuffs and cut my circulation? I have big hands, you don't have to put them on that tight. Shanon, one of the other people arrested, had bruises on her arms and wrists. They were obviously hired for crowd control. I don't think Rotary did that, I think that there was anticipation on Paul Ryan's part. There were two paddy wagons on deck … this shows that they anticipated something. We were not trying to do this, and they manipulated it to become about arrests.

How do you respond to people who were frustrated with the noisy protestors?

I'd say, "You are mad at me because you came to listen to him present all these falsehoods and sit there like you accept them and believe in them? Are you American, or what are you? You can't believe that these so called "entitlements" are ruining the economy!" I paid into Social Security for 52 years and am now collecting some of what I paid. My wife passed away recently. She'll never collect what she paid into. Can you imagine your retirement money if it is all up to the stock market? I think Paul Ryan has been mislead by the Koch Bros. He hasn't got enough guts to stand up to them. He used to be an Oscar Meyer Wiener salesman. Now he is a big shot in charge of all this whole government finances. How can he get such authority in only ten years? He spews this and tells us he gets all this encouragement from supporters so that he knows he is moving this country in the right direction. Of course he has to say something, but it is a fiasco.
 
Bfgrn said:
As usual, you are a lying sack of shit who makes up things that never happened. We do not have video before the 71 year old man shouted out, but before he even finished his legitimate point he was physically apprehended, dragged out of the room, and thrown to the ground. You can hear one of the thugs with badges ordering him to the ground. And you can hear the man groan from physical abuse. You right wing scum are authority ass lickers.
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Interesting, the next time I hear you complaining about a protest from a "TEA Party member"... I'll remember your awesome posts here. So far the people you are reviling here have said the same thing: If it were a TEA Party idiot that did this we would not be complaining because they too have no right to make assembly impossible for others...

And your side's argument: So long as the guy acting a jerk agrees with me, he should be allowed to do anything he pleases regardless of the rights of others.
 
Bfgrn said:
WHERE is the video showing him walking out of the building you fucking slime ball????????
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at the end of the video in the OP.... he is walking out with his hands cuffed behind him. Have you even WATCHED the video?

Originally from Denmark, Mr. Nielson has lived in the US for over 50 years. He's a retired union plumber who has worked hard all his life, and paid his share into the system. Ryan's comment, so easily asserted, that "entitlements are the main problem facing our economy," set him off. He hadn't planned to say anything during the luncheon, but felt he had to speak up.
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So he interrupted with a tantrum....

He watched with increasing dismay as two people were arrested for speaking and 20 others were forcefully escorted out of the building. He had strong feelings about Ryan just standing there watching people being removed from the lunch. Ryan made numerous demeaning comments aimed at the protestors, such as "We can get her a "to go" bag!" referring to a woman being kicked out of the event and "What's unique and exciting about this is that the Rotarians got 15 bucks out of them!" as others were ejected.
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so there were other disruptions to the meeting. Good to know. so it WAS a private event that charged admission. Good to know. I enjoy mocking those who throw tantrums as well.... just as you are doing on this thread.

One of the coordinators of the Rotary event, a local businessman, confirmed via phone today that Rotary is non-partisan, and that they wanted to hear Paul Ryan speak.
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So the PRIVATE organization brought Ryan in to SPEAK to them. Hmmmm..... so they wanted to hear what he had to say, not listen to people throwing tantrums trying to shout down Ryan. Good to know.

I asked him "Why did Ryan have so many policemen there?" referring to the 25 or more cops from multiple jurisdictions both inside and outside of the building. He didn't know.
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they were likely aware that many on the left have been lied to by their Dem masters and thus assumed there would be tantrum throwers there.

I asked him, "Why do you think your colleagues laughed at Rep Ryan's joke regarding the ousting of the elderly man?" and he said that they didn't discuss it.
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probably because it was..... FUNNY.

Tom Nielsen is a 71 year old man with a booming voice. He spoke out at Paul Ryan's Rotary Lunch in Greenfield, Wisconsin, last Tuesday, and was summarily escorted from the room, pushed to the floor, handcuffed, and ejected from the building. He was given municipal citations for violations of 2 city ordinances: resisting arrest and trespassing - even though he had purchased an event ticket.
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well, there you have it.... those are the reasons they arrested him. Though if he purchased a ticket I can't see the trespassing sticking. Should have charged him with disorderly conduct.

I just conducted a phone interview with Tom Nielsen, the man mentioned above:
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I bet this isn't biased at all.... right?

Describe what happened to you?

I had a ticket for the event, so it is not trespassing. I no more than voiced my opinion. I'm 6'4, 235 pounds but recently had a car accident and a broken clavicle. I told the policemen that. They were not too impressed. One policeman had my head down on the ground, and was six inches from my face, growling and snarling at me. I was worried about my shoulder, and said please don't hurt me. I said it five times. It fell to deaf ears. I was not a danger to anybody. Why throw me on the ground and cuff me with plastic handcuffs and cut my circulation? I have big hands, you don't have to put them on that tight. Shanon, one of the other people arrested, had bruises on her arms and wrists. They were obviously hired for crowd control. I don't think Rotary did that, I think that there was anticipation on Paul Ryan's part. There were two paddy wagons on deck … this shows that they anticipated something. We were not trying to do this, and they manipulated it to become about arrests.
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yeah... no bias there.... too bad the video didn't show that snarling cop. That video, if shot at once, didn't have a whole lot of time for him to have had the above conversation.

How do you respond to people who were frustrated with the noisy protestors?

I'd say, "You are mad at me because you came to listen to him present all these falsehoods and sit there like you accept them and believe in them? Are you American, or what are you?
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Too damn funny. So to listen to what Ryan is saying without shouting him down is somehow unAmerican?

You can't believe that these so called "entitlements" are ruining the economy!" I paid into Social Security for 52 years and am now collecting some of what I paid. My wife passed away recently. She'll never collect what she paid into. Can you imagine your retirement money if it is all up to the stock market? I think Paul Ryan has been mislead by the Koch Bros. He hasn't got enough guts to stand up to them. He used to be an Oscar Meyer Wiener salesman. Now he is a big shot in charge of all this whole government finances. How can he get such authority in only ten years? He spews this and tells us he gets all this encouragement from supporters so that he knows he is moving this country in the right direction. Of course he has to say something, but it is a fiasco.
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How many stupid Dem talking points did he cram into that little paragraph. The DNC should pay him for being such a good parrot.
 
Damocles said:
Interesting, the next time I hear you complaining about a protest from a "TEA Party member"... I'll remember your awesome posts here. So far the people you are reviling here have said the same thing: If it were a TEA Party idiot that did this we would not be complaining because they too have no right to make assembly impossible for others...

And your side's argument: So long as the guy acting a jerk agrees with me, he should be allowed to do anything he pleases regardless of the rights of others.
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He should not have been treated in such a fashion, so quickly, everyone has a right to assembly, it is the peacefully that has to be respected and just because this guy raised his voice and didn't hold up his hand for his turn doesn't mean he is immediately set upon and treated like he was attacking the stage.

It is the duty of the law enofrcement to act according to the threat. They overreacted, in my opinion. We have seen a lot of overzealous law enforecement at these types of gatherings and we have seen bad behavior on both sides.

I saw Rommeny handle a heckler and he didn't need the strong arm of the law!

Ryan is a crybaby and if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
 
Rana said:
He should not have been treated in such a fashion, so quickly, everyone has a right to assembly, it is the peacefully that has to be respected and just because this guy raised his voice and didn't hold up his hand for his turn doesn't mean he is immediately set upon and treated like he was attacking the stage.

It is the duty of the law enofrcement to act according to the threat. They overreacted, in my opinion. We have seen a lot of overzealous law enforecement at these types of gatherings and we have seen bad behavior on both sides.

I saw Rommeny handle a heckler and he didn't need the strong arm of the law!

Ryan is a crybaby and if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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I doubt Ryan had anything to do with it, the Rotary club likely hired off-duty cops to work as security for the event.
 
the statement offered by Greenfield Interim Police Chief Brad Wentlandt - "The event was a private function, held on private property," Greenfield Interim Police Chief Brad Wentlandt said. "The Whitnall Rotary was the host and in control of the banquet hall, thereby having the right to allow entry, refuse entry or demand that anyone be removed who they did not want there....We had a procedure in place where a member of the rotary — the property 'owners' for the event — would ask the unruly person to sit down and be quiet," Wentlandt said. "If the person refused, then law enforcement would step in and make the same request. If the person continued to refuse, they were escorted out. If they did not resist, they were escorted to the doors and off the property. If they continued their behavior or resisted, they were arrested."
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ooops....
 
Damocles said:
I doubt Ryan had anything to do with it, the Rotary club likely hired off-duty cops to work as security for the event.
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He could have stopped them from acting so physically towards his constiuent! I think Romney would have done so.

His speaking should come with a warning label, you will be arrested for interrupting the Commrade Ryan.

I know you believe he is blameless in this matter, but I see this as another black eye for the guy.
 
Rana said:
He could have stopped them from acting so physically towards his constiuent! I think Romney would have done so.

His speaking should come with a warning label, you will be arrested for interrupting the Commrade Ryan.

I know you believe he is blameless in this matter, but I see this as another black eye for the guy.
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I believe your problem with Ryan's politics has blinded you to reality.
 
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