Rep Paul Ryan's freedom of silence

Bfgrn said:
The man was fucking arrested. ARRESTED for speaking out in a PUBLIC forum. Ryan is a PUBLIC servant. A town hall meeting is not a private venue. What kind of freedom of speech is that? I never called for the tea partiers that deliberately disrupted Democrats that held town hall meetings to be ARRESTED.
Click to expand...

Not a public forum. One cannot be arrested for trespassing in a public venue. You are mistakenly assuming that every meeting held by anybody is a public venue if it is called a town hall meeting. It wasn't in a town hall, it was in a private venue.

I'll ask you one question: At what point does this gentleman's right overcome the rights of everybody else at the venue?

And again, you suggested that I would be "upset" if a TEA Party dude got arrested for the same thing. You are just wrong. The individual rights of the other participants were being violated by one guy, he was removed, he continued after removal to attempt to make himself a nuisance and those people then arrested him. I believe that you have a right to be able to hear and participate in such a forum, even one held on a private property like this... In order for that to happen we have laws and rules that govern our behavior at such an event. If the guy had made his point and sat down, he wouldn't have been removed, but he didn't. If the guy had ceased to be a nuisance after he was removed he wouldn't have been arrested, he didn't.
 
Return of Dune said:
So they cops grabbed the guy because he was resisting arrest?
Click to expand...

Read his sentence again, I'm pretty sure that you can understand the difference between what he said and what you are saying here. My guess is you don't want to be honest with yourself and face up to that... but deep down you will understand when you read it.
 
Damocles said:
Read his sentence again, I'm pretty sure that you can understand the difference between what he said and what you are saying here. My guess is you don't want to be honest with yourself and face up to that... but deep down you will understand when you read it.
Click to expand...

You mean this nonsense by any chance Damo? "likely"?

Yurt said:
you have repeatedly been answered about what law. SF accurately surmised the law for you more than once. you would need to read the law in the county he was arrested. likely there is a disturbing the peace statute that his behavior would fall under as such statutes are generally broad.

can you now stop whining that no one has answered your question?
Click to expand...
 
icedancer2theend said:
I love this TEA Party gal!

Click to expand...

Ah, yes. The "small business owner" whining about medical costs. Well, the solution is quite simple. Government medical. Universal coverage. One payer system. Whatever name one wishes to put on it, it solves the problem because small businesses wouldn't have to supply any insurance. None. Nada. Everyone would be covered. Should an employee contract, say, cancer the small business owner's premiums wouldn't increase because they wouldn't be paying any premiums to begin with. They could hire anyone they chose regardless of their health. That would certainly be a bonus for those "productive every day" entrepreneurs.
 
Rana said:
The sad thing was Ryan made a bad joke at the guys expense and if you watch the video, for him to be treated this way for his actions is a wee bit extreme. Ryan didn't even address the man to ask him ti calm down, the officers were on him immediately.

People are angry these days.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned before, it is a very short video clip. If you have a longer version that shows the entire meeting I would like to see it. Given what the man did, asking him to either wait his turn for questions or to leave was the appropriate action. If he refused to calm down and act like an adult, then they were right to escort him out. If he further resisted (which we cannot see), then he deserved to be arrested. The video also does not show what occurred in hallway. It flashes back to Ryan and then back to the guy already on the floor being cuffed so what he did or didn't do is currently unknown (unless someone has other video showing something else).

That said, if it was his first attempt to shout down Ryan, I would agree Ryan should have addressed it differently. I have absolutely no problem with politicians who mock those who throw tantrums. They act like a child, they should be treated as such.
 
apple0154 said:
Ah, yes. The "small business owner" whining about medical costs. Well, the solution is quite simple. Government medical. Universal coverage. One payer system. Whatever name one wishes to put on it, it solves the problem because small businesses wouldn't have to supply any insurance. None. Nada. Everyone would be covered. Should an employee contract, say, cancer the small business owner's premiums wouldn't increase because they wouldn't be paying any premiums to begin with. They could hire anyone they chose regardless of their health. That would certainly be a bonus for those "productive every day" entrepreneurs.
Click to expand...

How many businesses have you run?
 
Bfgrn said:
You are missing the point Damo. The guy should not have been arrested. Paul Ryan works for him, not the other way around. It was a public forum, not a private meeting. The man had a legitimate point.

It amazes me how you so called 'less government' types so easily side WITH government when it bombs, invades, tortures, arrests, incarcerates and executes human beings. Democracy is not always orderly. The Nazis had order
Click to expand...

No, it is you that is missing the point. If you would bother to answer the question posed to you.....

DO people have the right to go into a townhall meeting and simply start shouting down opposition as this man clearly did?

IF you think people do have that right, then what would happen if EVERYONE acted in such a manner? Would there be any point to ever having a town hall meeting? Because it would simply result in shouting matches that are neither educational nor beneficial to anyone. It would simply provide a forum for idiots to go and shout at each other.
 
poet said:
No need to patronize me. You think beating an incumbent president is a piece of cake? Keep on thinking like you do...despite the economy, despite appearances, your side has the uphill battle.
Click to expand...

I would agree with the above. Though if the Reps run a moderate and not a far right winger, it will be significantly easier (obviously) to beat Obama should the economy remain as it is. If the economy improves to the point that unemployment is declining and expected to continue doing so, Obama is going to win re-election. If the economy doesn't improve, it will be a dogfight if the Reps run a rightwinger and a relatively easy win if they run a moderate.
 
Superfreak said:
I would agree with the above. Though if the Reps run a moderate and not a far right winger, it will be significantly easier (obviously) to beat Obama should the economy remain as it is. If the economy improves to the point that unemployment is declining and expected to continue doing so, Obama is going to win re-election. If the economy doesn't improve, it will be a dogfight if the Reps run a rightwinger and a relatively easy win if they run a moderate.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But whoever accused the Repubs of possessing "brains"? They are actually entertaining the candidacies of Bachmann, Palin, and Perry, all of whom are unelectable with their present positions. Romney, #2 in the race, is clearly the most reasonable in the field (if not the most flip-floppy), and if he can pit his business image against Obama's cool veneer, he may stand a chance. There. That wasn't so hard, was it?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
OK.....we all know you are a right wing Kool-Aid drinker and thinking objectively isn't exactly one of your strong points. So I'll explain it to you. I'll try to use single syllable words, as much as possible, so that this explanation does not go over your head. The United States of America. Is a constitutional Republic. In a constitutional Republic individuals (that's a big word which means "one man or one woman") have these things called "rights". One of those rights is the right to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of grievences.

Now this is where thinks get tricky for people, like you, who are cognitively challenged. Mr. Ryan is an employee of the Federal Government. He works for the people in the district in which Mr. Nielsen lives. Now Mr. Nielsen has a constitutionally protected right to peaceably redress his representative in the Government for a redress of grievences, in this case, the social entitlement programs that he had paid into his entire life, in which Mr. Ryan wants to gut so that he can enrich a few of his rich friends at Mr. Nielsin's expense. Now, when the Police officers jumped on Mr. Nielsen and forcibly silenced and arrested him they violeted his constitutionally protected right.
Click to expand...

And the bold is where idiots like you FAIL.

As I stated to the others on this board. What would happen if everyone simply started shouting down each other at these town hall meetings? Is that peaceful to you?

Now, I realize that to cognitively challenged kool-aid drinkers, like you, this is no big deal but for the majority of us true Americans who are not cognitively challanged and who are used to thinking for your selves, we are appalled at the gross violation of one of the most singularly important right a person can hold in this nation.

Obviously, that's no big deal to you!
Click to expand...

Thank you for once again using your pathetic ad hom attacks while at the same time making a complete fool of yourself. We do NOT have the RIGHT to go into these meetings and simply start shouting down others. You see.... EVERYONE in that room has RIGHTS.... not just the old man who was fed a spoon full of lies by your masters about people wanting to take away his social security. If your idiot masters had not lied to him, that old man would not likely have acted in the manner in which he did.
 
apple0154 said:
Ah, yes. The "small business owner" whining about medical costs. Well, the solution is quite simple. Government medical. Universal coverage. One payer system. Whatever name one wishes to put on it, it solves the problem because small businesses wouldn't have to supply any insurance. None. Nada. Everyone would be covered. Should an employee contract, say, cancer the small business owner's premiums wouldn't increase because they wouldn't be paying any premiums to begin with. They could hire anyone they chose regardless of their health. That would certainly be a bonus for those "productive every day" entrepreneurs.
Click to expand...

The majority of Americans do not want the socialist medicine model. It is bankrupting nations at the expense of over taxing its citizens...She already, quite eloquently, enumerated capitalist ideas that would work. She never whined, but it figures you'd attack her personally, instead of her ideas.
 
icedancer2theend said:
The majority of Americans do not want the socialist medicine model. It is bankrupting nations at the expense of over taxing its citizens...She already, quite eloquently, enumerated capitalist ideas that would work. She never whined, but it figures you'd attack her personally, instead of her ideas.
Click to expand...

Liar. Folks could care less about the ideology or the fine print...they simply want coverage, for their health issues. You, can't speak for the majority of Americans, and I worked in healthcare for almost 20 years. Talk about something you know about.
 
poet said:
Agreed. But whoever accused the Repubs of possessing "brains"? They are actually entertaining the candidacies of Bachmann, Palin, and Perry, all of whom are unelectable with their present positions. Romney, #2 in the race, is clearly the most reasonable in the field (if not the most flip-floppy), and if he can pit his business image against Obama's cool veneer, he may stand a chance. There. That wasn't so hard, was it?
Click to expand...

Bachmann and Palin have no chance of knocking off Obama in my opinion. Perry would be the aforementioned dogfight. Romney would be the moderate at this point and would be hard pressed to lose against Obama should the economy remain as it is. Unfortunately for Obama, his economic advisers are idiots that have somehow talked him into a 'jobs' plan that will do exactly nothing to create jobs. For the sake of the unemployed, I hope I am wrong.... but I doubt it.

Extending unemployment benefits (for which employers help pay) while at the same time giving a short term tax credit for 'hiring the long term unemployed' is simply not going to do anything but wash each other out at best.

The payroll tax cut is going to maintain the status quo.... it is not going to pump money into the economy.

Infrastructure.... here is where I think he can make a difference, but it is too little and the money is coming from the government rather than providing the private sector incentive to expand. We need a 'man to the moon initiative' and we are instead getting a 'I'm going to Martha's vineyard' initiative.
 
poet said:
Liar. Folks could care less about the ideology or the fine print...they simply want coverage, for their health issues. You, can't speak for the majority of Americans, and I worked in healthcare for almost 20 years. Talk about something you know about.
Click to expand...

The majority of the USA still wants Medicare for all, single payer. They are angry because Congress isn't listening as usual!
 
Superfreak said:
Bachmann and Palin have no chance of knocking off Obama in my opinion. Perry would be the aforementioned dogfight. Romney would be the moderate at this point and would be hard pressed to lose against Obama should the economy remain as it is. Unfortunately for Obama, his economic advisers are idiots that have somehow talked him into a 'jobs' plan that will do exactly nothing to create jobs. For the sake of the unemployed, I hope I am wrong.... but I doubt it.

Extending unemployment benefits (for which employers help pay) while at the same time giving a short term tax credit for 'hiring the long term unemployed' is simply not going to do anything but wash each other out at best.

The payroll tax cut is going to maintain the status quo.... it is not going to pump money into the economy.

Infrastructure.... here is where I think he can make a difference, but it is too little and the money is coming from the government rather than providing the private sector incentive to expand. We need a 'man to the moon initiative' and we are instead getting a 'I'm going to Martha's vineyard' initiative.
Click to expand...

Wow. A reasonable response, with which I'm in agreement.
 
Superfreak said:
No, it is you that is missing the point. If you would bother to answer the question posed to you.....

DO people have the right to go into a townhall meeting and simply start shouting down opposition as this man clearly did?

IF you think people do have that right, then what would happen if EVERYONE acted in such a manner? Would there be any point to ever having a town hall meeting? Because it would simply result in shouting matches that are neither educational nor beneficial to anyone. It would simply provide a forum for idiots to go and shout at each other.
Click to expand...

I don't promote all out shouting matches, but this man was not even allowed to finish his valid point before he was grabbed by 3 thugs with badges. Ryan made NO attempt to address the man and see if he would allow Ryan to answer. But the BIG point is the man did not deserve to be arrested. If he remained disruptive, he should have been ASKED to leave, without being attacked by thugs with badges.

The irony is SO FUCKING thick with you so called 'less government' types. You assholes absolutely LOVE government when it throws 71 year old people to the ground and abuses them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top