Rep Paul Ryan's freedom of silence

Bfgrn said:
History has proven that mid term election turn out favors the party out of power. Presidential elections do not follow that history. I suspect you are in for a rude awaking.
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Remember Jimmy Carter and Bush I? This President is much worse than either of them so I think you're in for a rude awakening. I know history. It helps.
 
Damocles said:
Your answer is actually quite simplistic and based solely in emotive nonsense... It "feels" as if this guy was violated because you "agree"...

Your assumption is that rights of everybody else in the room are suspended when somebody you agree with stomps on them. The reality is it doesn't matter that Ryan is a Congressman, he and the rest of the participants in that private venue (you can't trespass on public property it was a private venue), have a right to be able to assemble and speak and he has no right to interrupt and make that impossible.

You "agree" that nobody should ever be able to hear Paul Ryan, therefore overriding the rights of others in the room is not only okay, but it should be cheered.

I evaluate it directly. Are the rights of others being violated? Yes. Therefore he should be removed from the venue. It doesn't matter if it is somebody left or right of the spectrum. If they are violating the rights of others assembled there, they should be removed.
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Alias aproves of this message. You should be so proud.
 
Return of Dune said:
I made lots of comments earlier in the thread.

You chose to ignore them.
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However, you made one comment on the post in question, and it was a simple attempt at the ad hom fallacy where you tried the "guilt by association" nonsense.

I'll play. Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore all vegetarians and vegans are also Nazis.. See how it is a waste of space to make silly nonsense comments like that?
 
Damocles said:
However, you made one comment on the post in question, and it was a simple attempt at the ad hom fallacy where you tried the "guilt by association" nonsense.

I'll play. Hitler was a vegetarian, therefore all vegetarians and vegans are also Nazis.. See how it is a waste of space to make silly nonsense comments like that?
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You gotta admit you must have felt a little foolish to have an idiot like Alias agree with you...
 
Alias said:
That's just plain nuts. Ryan was speaking. Are we now supposed to keep a game card and keep score everytime one of you feel slighted to make everything fair? What kind of thinking does it take to take this incident and then connect it to another totally unrelated incident? This sounds like something some little kid would be hollering about. Come on, you're not some little kid are ya?
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What's just plain nuts is hypocrites like you who applauded the TEA Party when they disrupted town hall meetings in the runup to the Health Care vote, now whine when a liberal tries the tactics YOU endorsed last year...
 
Superfreak said:
So, just to be clear.... if a person is having a public speaking engagement, anyone in the audience is free to interrupt and try to shout them down with no consequences? Is that what you two are proposing?
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OK.....we all know you are a right wing Kool-Aid drinker and thinking objectively isn't exactly one of your strong points. So I'll explain it to you. I'll try to use single syllable words, as much as possible, so that this explanation does not go over your head. The United States of America. Is a constitutional Republic. In a constitutional Republic individuals (that's a big word which means "one man or one woman") have these things called "rights". One of those rights is the right to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of grievences.

Now this is where thinks get tricky for people, like you, who are cognitively challenged. Mr. Ryan is an employee of the Federal Government. He works for the people in the district in which Mr. Nielsen lives. Now Mr. Nielsen has a constitutionally protected right to peaceably redress his representative in the Government for a redress of grievences, in this case, the social entitlement programs that he had paid into his entire life, in which Mr. Ryan wants to gut so that he can enrich a few of his rich friends at Mr. Nielsin's expense. Now, when the Police officers jumped on Mr. Nielsen and forcibly silenced and arrested him they violeted his constitutionally protected right.

Now, I realize that to cognitively challenged kool-aid drinkers, like you, this is no big deal but for the majority of us true Americans who are not cognitively challanged and who are used to thinking for your selves, we are appalled at the gross violation of one of the most singularly important right a person can hold in this nation.

Obviously, that's no big deal to you!
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
OK.....we all know you are a right wing Kool-Aid drinker and thinking objectively isn't exactly one of your strong points. So I'll explain it to you. I'll try to use single syllable words, as much as possible, so that this explanation does not go over your head. The United States of American. Is a constitutional Republic. In a constitutional Republic individuals (that's a big word which means "one man or one woman") have these things called "rights". One of those rights is the right to peacably assemble to petition the government for a redress of grievences.

Now this is where thinks get tricky for people, like you, who are cognitively challenged. Mr. Ryan is an employee of the Federal Government. He works for the people in the districi in which Mr. Nielsen lives. Now Mr. Nielsen has a constitutionally protected right to peaceably redress his representative in the Government for a redress of grievences, in this case, the social entitlement programs that he had paid hin entire life into, in which Mr. Ryan wants to gut so that he can enrich a few of his rich friends at Mr. Nielsin's expense. Now, when the Police officers jumped on Mr. Nielsen and forcibly silenced and arrested him they violeted his constitutionally protected right.

Now, I realize that to cognitively challenged kool-aid drinkers, like you, this is no big deal but for the majority of us true Americans who are not cognitively challanged and who are used to thinking by your selves, we are appalled at the gross violation of one of the most singularly important right a person can hold in this nation.

Obviously, that's no big deal to you!
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And it's obvious that you have no understanding of Robert's Rules of Order, nor do you care if they are followed; at least by Liberals.
 
Alias said:
Remember Jimmy Carter and Bush I? This President is much worse than either of them so I think you're in for a rude awakening. I know history. It helps.
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Dude, you're an idiot. First, neither Carter or Bush 1 were bad Presidents. Mediocre maybe but not bad. Obama on the other hand inherited most of your Messiah's Bush II fuck ups and has done a reasonable, though by no means great, job of cleaning up the disasters which were the BushII presidency. By any definition, considering the scale of ineptitude, incomptence and flat out fuck ups of Bush, makes Obama a historically significant President.

So....go read a book and come back when you actually know what you're talking about.
 
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Apparently you don't understand Roberts rules of order either or else you would understand that they don't apply in a public meetings. Or maybe it's that you only feel that the first ammendment only applies to people who agree with you? I mean what is it with you right wingers that freedom is just an empty and meaningless word to you folks and why is it when a true American like Mr. Nielsen actually practices his constitutionally protected freedom that wingnuts like you howl in outrage.

Well it may outrage you but I'm all for political freedom.
 
You know what's really fucking pathetic about what happened and why I don't respect Ryan for this episode is if it had been me. I would have stopped the police officers, I would have allowed Mr. Nielsen to have his say, no matter how virulent it was. I would have let him vent his rage cause even though he may be a member of a different party he's still my constituent and then after Mr. Nielsen had vented himself and wound down, I would have gave him the respect he deserved as a constituent and addressed his complaints, as any of Mr Ryans constituents deserve.

I see this and it just gives me the impression that Ryan is a weak assed punk who is to big a pussy to listen to his own constituents. And before any of you wing nuts jump on my ass about the approach I would have taken I should inform you that I learned this from watching Strom Thurmond cause that's exactly what Strom would have done and he would have won Mr. Nielson over! Not have his thugs beat his ass and arrest him. So this isn't a Republcian/Democrat or Conservative/Liberal thing. This is a doing things right and respecting people vs. I'm a fucking pussy punk thug who can't deal with dissent, issue. Ryan's a pussy.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You know what's really fucking pathetic about what happened and why I don't respect Ryan for this episode is if it had been me. I would have stopped the police officers, I would have allowed Mr. Nielsen to have his say, no matter how virulent it was. I would have let him vent his rage cause even though he may be a member of a different party he's still my constituent and then after Mr. Nielsen had vented himself and would down, I would have gave him the respect he deserved as a constituent and addressed his complaints, as any of Mr Ryans constituents deserve.

I see this and it just gives me the impression that Ryan is a weak assed punk who is to big a pussy to listen to his own constituents.
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Technically, he's a big pussy who won't listen to his own constituents UNLESS THEY VOTED FOR HIM.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You know what's really fucking pathetic about what happened and why I don't respect Ryan for this episode is if it had been me. I would have stopped the police officers, I would have allowed Mr. Nielsen to have his say, no matter how virulent it was. I would have let him vent his rage cause even though he may be a member of a different party he's still my constituent and then after Mr. Nielsen had vented himself and wound down, I would have gave him the respect he deserved as a constituent and addressed his complaints, as any of Mr Ryans constituents deserve.

I see this and it just gives me the impression that Ryan is a weak assed punk who is to big a pussy to listen to his own constituents. And before any of you wing nuts jump on my ass about the approach I would have taken I should inform you that I learned this from watching Strom Thurmond cause that's exactly what Strom would have done and he would have won Mr. Nielson over! Not have his thugs beat his ass and arrest him. So this isn't a Republcian/Democrat or Conservative/Liberal thing. This is a doing things right and respecting people vs. I'm a fucking pussy punk thug who can't deal with dissent, issue. Ryan's a pussy.
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So basically; as long as those present want to disrupt; the speaker is should listen to only what they have to say and his reason for being there is inconsequential!

You're wrong.
 
Damocles said:
Your answer is actually quite simplistic and based solely in emotive nonsense... It "feels" as if this guy was violated because you "agree"...

Your assumption is that rights of everybody else in the room are suspended when somebody you agree with stomps on them. The reality is it doesn't matter that Ryan is a Congressman, he and the rest of the participants in that private venue (you can't trespass on public property it was a private venue), have a right to be able to assemble and speak and he has no right to interrupt and make that impossible.

You "agree" that nobody should ever be able to hear Paul Ryan, therefore overriding the rights of others in the room is not only okay, but it should be cheered.

I evaluate it directly. Are the rights of others being violated? Yes. Therefore he should be removed from the venue. It doesn't matter if it is somebody left or right of the spectrum. If they are violating the rights of others assembled there, they should be removed.
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The man was fucking arrested. ARRESTED for speaking out in a PUBLIC forum. Ryan is a PUBLIC servant. A town hall meeting is not a private venue. What kind of freedom of speech is that? I never called for the tea partiers that deliberately disrupted Democrats that held town hall meetings to be ARRESTED.
 
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