Why is Rick Perry in the lead?

Damocles said:
So first you say that Bush didn't try anything, then when you are literally shown to be incorrect your answer is he wasn't "strenuous" enough trying to get it done and tell me he didn't care.

Reality: Bush told you this was coming, the democrats (far more than just Barney, the reason we mention that is because it is easy to find video of it) kept telling us there was no reason to even look there. In fact they fought so much against it that republican leaders knew that the stuff wouldn't pass even when they gained the majority...

Except he, Greenspan, etc. told you it was coming and why... tried to do something about it... yet he is the one who "didn't care" and was an utter buffoon. And after all of that, you call somebody who brings up that Bush told you what was coming and tried to do something about it a "hack"...

Bush was by far my least favorite republican President since Grant... But that doesn't mean I don't understand that the man warned us, and tried to do something about it.
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So, here we have SF throughout the thread, lecturing me about leadership and how no one really knew this was going to happen.

And then Damo chimes in and says no....Bush knew all along, and even warned us! Poor guy, though - even though he was such a leader, and had all kinds of power (especially w/ a GOP Congress), he could do nothing to stand up to Barney friggin' Frank.
 
Damocles said:
So first you say that Bush didn't try anything, then when you are literally shown to be incorrect your answer is he wasn't "strenuous" enough trying to get it done and tell me he didn't care.
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First, I don't know what "it" is. Can you clarify? The "it' I am talking about is imposing additional regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac. Bush didn't really try to do anything. The Senate Republicans did pretty much anything he wanted. If he wanted them to move on Fannie and Freddy, they would have. But they didn't because he didn't ask them to do anything.

Damocles said:
Reality: Bush told you this was coming, the democrats (far more than just Barney, the reason we mention that is because it is easy to find video of it) kept telling us there was no reason to even look there. In fact they fought so much against it that republican leaders knew that the stuff wouldn't pass even when they gained the majority...
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Reality: Speeches don't do anything. In order for something to be done, the President either has to persuade Congress to do something or else do something on his own by Executive Order. Bush did neither. And again, if the Senate Republicans wanted to do anything the bill that passed the House wouldn't have sat in committee. It would at the very least have been voted out of committee -- the Democrats cannot filibuster committee votes.

Damocles said:
Except he, Greenspan, etc. told you it was coming and why... tried to do something about it... yet he is the one who "didn't care" and was an utter buffoon. And after all of that, you call somebody who brings up that Bush told you what was coming and tried to do something about it a "hack"...
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Actually, no, he didn't do anything about "it."

Damocles said:
Bush was by far my least favorite republican President since Grant... But that doesn't mean I don't understand that the man warned us, and tried to do something about it.
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No, he didn't try to do anything.

Damocles said:
I'm not the one actually ignoring what the man actually said and proposed to say that he "didn't care"... That's where you'll find your "hack"..
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Who are you quoting? Certainly not me. Bush cared so much that he did exactly nothing about "it." Meanwhile, Barney Frank sponsored and passed a bill to impose the very regulations on Fannie and Freddy that you presumably think would have saved the world.
 
Onceler said:
So, here we have SF throughout the thread, lecturing me about leadership and how no one really knew this was going to happen.

And then Damo chimes in and says no....Bush knew all along, and even warned us! Poor guy, though - even though he was such a leader, and had all kinds of power (especially w/ a GOP Congress), he could do nothing to stand up to Barney friggin' Frank.
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The weirdest thing about Damo's argument is that Barney Frank actually sponsored a bill that passed the House of Representatives imposing Regulations on Fannie and Freddy while the president did exactly nothing yet in Damo's world Bush tried his darndest to get something done while Barney Frank thwarted him at every opportunity!

As I said, I cannot imagine why otherwise intelligent people buy into this transparent bullshit, but here we are.
 
what democrats overlook all the time is that obama supported affordable home ownership for people, many of whom could not truly afford it. the NINJA loans were a large factor in defaults. from what i recall, obama supported affordable home ownership. it a policy championed by dems and bush carried the torch.

that said, there were many factors that caused the economy to turn down. to blame it all on bush is the height of ignorance and partisan bullshit.
 
Yurt said:
what democrats overlook all the time is that obama supported affordable home ownership for people, many of whom could not truly afford it. the NINJA loans were a large factor in defaults. from what i recall, obama supported affordable home ownership. it a policy championed by dems and bush carried the torch.

that said, there were many factors that caused the economy to turn down. to blame it all on bush is the height of ignorance and partisan bullshit.
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There aren't "many factors" now. Superfreak, whose posts you seem to have no issue with, is laying the cause of the current economy's stagnation firmly at the feet of Obama. It's interesting that you have no issue w/ that characterization.

As for Bush, do you agree w/ Damo, that he knew what was coming, and "warned us"?
 
Onceler said:
There aren't "many factors" now. Superfreak, whose posts you seem to have no issue with, is laying the cause of the current economy's stagnation firmly at the feet of Obama. It's interesting that you have no issue w/ that characterization.

As for Bush, do you agree w/ Damo, that he knew what was coming, and "warned us"?
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unbelievable. i'm not going to speak for SF but you are once again mischaracterizing what people said.

why is you continue to blame ONE person when that simply is so untrue it is laughable? why is it you refuse to support your claims and instead continue to move the goal posts?

i don't know if anyone knew it was going to be as bad as it was. but bush and many other reps did warn us. to deny that is simply untrue. while bush did try and keep confidence up, there were also warnings. your insistence that it was all bush's fault shows you severely lack any comprehension of economic issues. you're a talking points bulletin.
 
Yurt said:
what democrats overlook all the time is that obama supported affordable home ownership for people, many of whom could not truly afford it. the NINJA loans were a large factor in defaults. from what i recall, obama supported affordable home ownership. it a policy championed by dems and bush carried the torch.

that said, there were many factors that caused the economy to turn down. to blame it all on bush is the height of ignorance and partisan bullshit.
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Just to be clear, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were not subprime lenders or guarantors of subprime loans. So pretending that supporters of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac or supporters of affordable home ownership were supporters of subprime lending or NINJA loans is disingenuous at best.
 
Yurt said:
unbelievable. i'm not going to speak for SF but you are once again mischaracterizing what people said.

why is you continue to blame ONE person when that simply is so untrue it is laughable? why is it you refuse to support your claims and instead continue to move the goal posts?

i don't know if anyone knew it was going to be as bad as it was. but bush and many other reps did warn us. to deny that is simply untrue. while bush did try and keep confidence up, there were also warnings. your insistence that it was all bush's fault shows you severely lack any comprehension of economic issues. you're a talking points bulletin.
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Bush knew, apparently for years, that we were in for this crash.

Why didn't he try to do anything about it? Is that all a President is capable of doing...issuing "warnings"?
 
Onceler said:
Bush knew, apparently for years, that we were in for this crash.

Why didn't he try to do anything about it? Is that all a President is capable of doing...issuing "warnings"?
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first you say he CREATED the mess, now...it is he didn't do enough to stop the mess. those are two different concepts that apparently you are not intelligent enough to understand. did he create the mess or did he not do enough to stop it? which is it? both claims cannot be right, so you were wrong on one.
 
David St. Hubbins said:
Just to be clear, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were not subprime lenders or guarantors of subprime loans. So pretending that supporters of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac or supporters of affordable home ownership were supporters of subprime lending or NINJA loans is disingenuous at best.
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where did i say they were?

they did hold them though.
 
Yurt said:
first you say he CREATED the mess, now...it is he didn't do enough to stop the mess. those are two different concepts that apparently you are not intelligent enough to understand. did he create the mess or did he not do enough to stop it? which is it? both claims cannot be right, so you were wrong on one.
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He DID create the mess, and everything you & Damo are saying is corroborating that. He knew what was going to happen...imagine that! He knew it, and warned us...but did absolutely nothing.

He was Prez for 8 years, Yurt - and he knew this. If you are able to take action to stop something and you don't? Yeah - you're responsible for it. Unless you want to take your usual "Bush was an innocent bystander in his admin & bears no accountability for anything" stance. Tell us how Libya is just like Iraq while you're at it.
 
Onceler said:
He DID create the mess, and everything you & Damo are saying is corroborating that. He knew what was going to happen...imagine that! He knew it, and warned us...but did absolutely nothing.

He was Prez for 8 years, Yurt - and he knew this. If you are able to take action to stop something and you don't? Yeah - you're responsible for it. Unless you want to take your usual "Bush was an innocent bystander in his admin & bears no accountability for anything" stance. Tell us how Libya is just like Iraq while you're at it.
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you are truly a moron. not stopping something is not the same as creating it. it is clear that talking to you is like talking to a simple person and nothing ever said will matter, you will misconstrue what anyone says and maybe it isn't because you're always dishonest, but you're really really dumb.

obama was a senator during that time, a time when the dems had a majority. but oh no, obama isn't responsible for anything, only bush is. bush has absolute power over congress. it is hilarious because now, the house is a pub majority and obama isn't responsible because the pubs control only one house.

lol
 
they held subprime, but it was the private market guaranteeing them. they were not innocent of the whole subprime issue though. surely you aren't saying that.
 
Yurt said:
you are truly a moron. not stopping something is not the same as creating it. it is clear that talking to you is like talking to a simple person and nothing ever said will matter, you will misconstrue what anyone says and maybe it isn't because you're always dishonest, but you're really really dumb.

obama was a senator during that time, a time when the dems had a majority. but oh no, obama isn't responsible for anything, only bush is. bush has absolute power over congress. it is hilarious because now, the house is a pub majority and obama isn't responsible because the pubs control only one house.

lol
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Typical Bush apologism. He could have stopped a major crisis that he knew all about, but he didn't...and thus, he's not responsble!

You should hear yourself. You guys are brainwashed.
 
Onceler said:
He didn't continue every Bush policy (which was your claim) - even with regard to Iraq & Afganistan. And he most certainly didn't continue either Bush's budget priorities or economic "policy," if you can call it that.
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Everything that I thought was bad about Bush worsened under this President. PATRIOT Act, HHS, the Pill Bill went on steroids and became a program enforced by the IRS that makes me purchase health insurance... GITMO is still there, remote control bombing, nation-building nonsense, wars of convenience for what is supposed to be altruistic reasons, bombing the crap out of people without declarations of war long past deadlines of approvals, we can go on and on.

Bush III is everything bad about Bush II with a few more bad policies on domestic policy thrown in for good measure, and he has the same attitude Bush I had about the economy. Somebody needs to tell this guy that "turning the focus" now is about 2 1/2 years too late, my guess is the only people that can and will do it are the ones that will vote him out in '12.
 
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