Voters blame Bush more than Obama for the economy

Superfreak said:
That is where you are wrong. The things I list are the EXACT reason that people think the economy is WORSE than it was. The average person does not look at GDP and say 'gee, things are better'. They DO look at the price of food, gasoline, energy bills, clothing, unemployment etc... THAT is what they FEEL personally. That is what hits them the hardest.... not 'what is the stock market doing' or 'are those banks doing alright'.

As for employment, DO explain to us how the jobs market is better given that the unemployment rate has remained above 9%. While it is indeed a lagging indicator, you are smoking crack if you think it lags by over 2 years.

As for the random indicator like 'gas'.... gasoline prices effect damn near every aspect of our lives. Keep that in mind as Obama is tossed next year... because there is nothing to indicate things are getting better from this point forward.
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Here is where the spin started, Freak. I said that gas PRICES have very little to do with American domestic policy; the meaning there is pretty clear to me - not much that we do policy-wise has a real impact on the price of gas.

You turned that into "of course gas prices affect our economy."

Two different concepts, entirely. If you are unable to grasp that, I can't really help you.
 
Onceler said:
Here is where the spin started, Freak. I said that gas PRICES have very little to do with American domestic policy; the meaning there is pretty clear to me - not much that we do policy-wise has a real impact on the price of gas.

You turned that into "of course gas prices affect our economy."

Two different concepts, entirely. If you are unable to grasp that, I can't really help you.
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No moron.... the SPIN started right where I showed you it did. YOU stated that gas was a 'random' indicator. I then stated how IMPORTANT an indicator Gas was. THEN you spun it into some nonsense about gas not having much to do with American domestic policy.

Not only are you completely WRONG about American domestic policy not having much affect on gas prices, you are also the one who SPUN the conversation away from what we WERE discussing which was 'whether gas is an important indicator or a random one'.

You are ALSO wrong to state my response was spinning. It was not. American domestic policy IS concerned with the Economy, which can be impacted significantly by higher/lower GAS prices. Which is why policies like Strong dollar vs. weak Dollar, domestic drilling or not, effect the PRICE of GAS via Oil.
 
Again, this was the exchange....

Go back and look at what I wrote moron.

I said "As for the random indicator like 'gas'.... gasoline prices effect damn near every aspect of our lives..."

YOU replied: 'As for gas, like I said - it has very little to do with American domestic policy. '

I then stated: "Go out and see how many people think gasoline prices have very little to do with our economy"

YOU replied "where did I say gas prices have little to do w/ the economy?"

I then stated: "sorry, you stated 'American domestic policy'... Forgive me for thinking the American Economy was the foremost issue when it comes to American domestic policy. Totally my fault. How could I have been so silly."

YOU replied "Saying that oil prices are only minimally influenced by American domestic policy is a complete, 100% different concept than saying that rising gas prices have no effect on the American economy."

I then stated: "Saying oil prices are only minimally influenced by American domestic policy is blatantly false. It is also directly tied into gasoline prices you dolt. You stated that "As for gas, like I said - it has very little to do with American domestic policy".... which again is completely FALSE as American domestic policy has a huge impact on oil prices, which in turn effects gasoline prices, which in turn can be quite destructive to the American economy. It is all tied together you moron."
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The bolded, underlined portion is where you began to spin.... You did not previously state that gas had little to do with American domestic policy. You said gas was a random indicator.
 
lol...onceler doesn't think the price of oil effects the economy...all one has to do is look at the fallout from 2008 and the recent high price of oil
 
You're a complete, overblown fool. Gas is a random indicator in that the price levels are NOT tied into domestic policy as a whole - they are largely outside of our control. You can argue that if you want, but it's a completely different argument.

Nowhere did I say, insinuate or infer that gas prices themselves do not affect the economy. They do, in a big way; I wouldn't argue that.

But you're really a full-blown idiot. I can't believe you still can't grasp the difference. Like I said: I can't help you.
 
Yurt said:
lol...onceler doesn't think the price of oil effects the economy...all one has to do is look at the fallout from 2008 and the recent high price of oil
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It looks to me like Oncelor said that American domestic policy has little impact on gas prices, not that the price of oil doesn't effect the economy.
 
Yurt said:
of course he said it, he said it a dozen times in this thread, open your eyes!!!!
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LOL - nice try. You commented too quickly again. It's good to see you admit that you realized how much you stepped in it, and are backing off.
 
Onceler said:
You're a complete, overblown fool. Gas is a random indicator in that the price levels are NOT tied into domestic policy as a whole - they are largely outside of our control. You can argue that if you want, but it's a completely different argument.
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So you are going to continue to pretend that you didn't change the topic? Didn't try to spin? Ok, you are desperate and quite pathetic.

Gas is NOT a random indicator you dolt. THAT is where you continue to make a mistake. It is one of the most important LEADING indicators due to its impact on the economy as a whole.

As for domestic policy... tell us.... what happened when Obama released oil from the reserves? Obviously it was a short term effect.... but OIL immediately dropped further. Gas prices soon followed. WHY? Because supply increased temporarily. What do you suppose happens to the price of oil if we open ALL US land and waters to drilling oil and nat gas? What do you suppose the response to that DOMESTIC policy would do to oil prices (and subsequently gasoline prices)????????

What do you think happens when our DOMESTIC policy shifts from promoting a weak dollar to promoting a strong dollar? WHAT happens to oil prices then Lorax????? What is the subsequent move in gasoline as a direct result of domestic policy??? You are a complete and total fucking retard if you think they are 'two separate issues'.

also... of course you can't help me... you have no clue what you are talking about.
 
Thanks for proving my point, SF. I said domestic policy has minimal effect - not no effect. The examples you provided show how correct I am on that.

I didn't change the topic; we were talking about gas prices. I said domestic policy doesn't have much effect on them. You misread that, and thought I said gas prices don't effect the economy. And you've been spinning based on that ever since.

But hey - you got Yurt to agree with you. That's something.
 
Onceler said:
Here is where the spin started, Freak. I said that gas PRICES have very little to do with American economy; the meaning there is pretty clear to me - not much that we do policy-wise has a real impact on the price of gas. Simply put, oil PRICES do not effect our economy.

Two different concepts, entirely. If you are unable to grasp that, I can't really help you.
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.
 
Onceler said:
Thanks for proving my point, SF. I said domestic policy has minimal effect - not no effect. The examples you provided show how correct I am on that.
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ROFLMAO... wow, you truly are desperate. The effects on gas prices can be dramatic. You do know that oil is largely denominated in US dollars? As the US dollar strengthens, oil prices fall. Over the past several years, the dollar has declined by almost 20% which has caused a subsequent increase in oil and thus gasoline, yet you think it has minimal effect? You truly are a fucking hack. Obviously you are out of your depth. Go back to the kiddie pool with Yurt.

I didn't change the topic; we were talking about gas prices. I said domestic policy doesn't have much effect on them. You misread that, and thought I said gas prices don't effect the economy. And you've been spinning based on that ever since.
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Wrong again moron.... I showed you the posts and the order in which they appeared. I mentioned gas as an indicator, you then said it was 'random', I then told you why you were wrong.... YOU then CLAIMED you had stated previously you were talking about 'how gas was affected by domestic policy'. Again moron.... can you acknowledge that portion of the conversation or are you going to continue to pretend that it didn't happen?????

Pathetic fool.
 
I'm pretty much done, Freak. I've seen you do this too many times; you're the energizer bunny of spin.

I never said that oil prices have no effect on the economy, period. I don't believe that.

And after all this, what have we concluded? Oh, yeah - that bravo's statement that the crash has worsened under Obama's tenure is incorrect.
 
Onceler said:
I'm pretty much done, Freak. I've seen you do this too many times; you're the energizer bunny of spin.

I never said that oil prices have no effect on the economy, period. I don't believe that.

And after all this, what have we concluded? Oh, yeah - that bravo's statement that the crash has worsened under Obama's tenure is incorrect.
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Again moron, I never stated that you did say that. I said you are wrong that domestic policy has little/minimal effect on gas prices (via oil). I said that you are wrong to state that gas is a 'random indicator'.

You are the only one spinning here. You have shown that you can be a complete pathetic hack who can't even acknowledge what you have written on this thread, despite the continued REPOSTING of your direct quotes.

You can cling to whether it should be called part of the 'crash' all you want. If you ask people if we are better or worse than we were when Obama took office... THAT is what will tell you if things are worse or not.

Everyone of the indicators I pointed to says you are wrong. Which is obviously why you are spinning so desperately. You can't even point to the quotes where you claim I was spinning. You point to the one where I phrased it differently than you, which I acknowledged directly afterwards. Yet you continue to pretend you aren't the one spinning.

You say you were 'clear' with regard to the employment comparison time frame.... you lied.
You say you weren't the one spinning the gas indicator being important or not.... you lied.

I can see why you want to run away now.
 
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