Rule of Unintended Consequences

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Many taxpayers are seeing their bills drop under Obama.​

Income-tax payments this year will be nearly 13 percent lower than they were in 2008, the last full year of the Bush presidency. Corporate taxes will be lower by a third, according to projections by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Tax PAYMENTS will be lower because not as much income was earned! Goofball! Obama didn't lower the tax rates! People lost jobs, businesses went under... therefore, not as much tax was paid.

So, explain why you fear Obama's taxes on your imaginary German fortune, Seven-Million-Dollar Man.

I don't fear it, my money is secure. And for the record, it's $6.8 million. I think you need to amend your childish insult to "six-point-eight-million-dollar-man" because $200k is a lot of money.. you probably won't get that much in welfare over the next 10 years. Incidentally, it didn't start out at $6.8 mil, the actual amount I was paid for the patents were in the neighborhood of $4.2 million at the time, but since it was in Euros and the dollar has declined so much in value, when coupled with interest over the years, and a few other smart investment strategies, it has grown to $6.8 mil. Are you jealous? You need a loan?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Did you amass this imaginary fortune before or after you earned your imaginary psychology degree...or was it during your time as an imaginary war hero...?



Why didn't you ask your imaginary close personal friends George W. Bush or the richest man in Alabubba to help you get your imaginary German millions out of the clutches of the Kraut Commies?

....Or why don't I just put you on ignore again? Yeah, that's a BETTER idea!

 

[DamnYankee]

You asked specifically about two countries. I don't know what Japan and Germany would do. The Germans routinely vote Socialists into power, so in a sense, they are already aligned with the Commies, or at least, a good chunk of the public supports communism. Japan is a different story, but again... who do you suppose they are more likely to ally with, if we're not going to help them? Please keep in mind, I am not saying we need to spend billions in foreign aid, I posted this thread to discuss the Rule of Unintended Consequences. If we eliminate all foreign aid, there will be a consequence, what will it be? I just want to get you to thinking about the consequence, rather than emotively clinging to some radical idea you haven't thought through.

I can understand the isolationist sentiments, why should we squander our blood and treasure for these third world governments? All these years of trying to be the world police, have driven us to the edge of bankruptcy, and it's easy to see why people are angry about it. But everything we do is tied to some American interest, there is a reason for our involvement. We need to think about the consequences of withdrawing from the world stage. Our country is not self-sufficient, we depend on other countries around the world for all sorts of things, we import far more than we export. So what do you suppose happens, when the world blows up into war and chaos and interferes dramatically with our way of life? Can we deal with $25 a gallon gas? What about when North Korea or Pakistan starts hurling nukes at their enemies? Can we deal with the ramifications of that? I know it sounds like I am being dramatic, but think about it... there is a reason for US presence around the world, and we need to consider all the consequences of removing that presence before we do it. Go look at history, we've tried isolationism before, and it did not work! Now here we are, years later, a nation full of history illiterates who think the best idea in the world is to become isolationist again. That comes with a cost. There are always consequences.

I realize we can't eliminate all foreign aid, but we can eliminate a lot of it now and wean most of the leeches off us completely over time.

 

[zappasguitar]

You are doing the same thing as the emotive liberals... letting your emotions dictate your actions. You want to teach the world a lesson by removing our bases abroad and letting them fend for themselves, but have you considered the consequences? What happens when the precious few democracies we've fostered all these years, go under? What happens when the Russians decide to invade Poland or re-constitute the Soviet Bloc? What about when radical Islamic tyrants take over Europe? When the rest of the world is consumed in war, chaos and turmoil, is not going to be the time to discover the consequences of removing US presence. That time is now, before it happens, before we do something utterly stupid.... but we can always say, we didn't have any idea THIS would happen!

OMG...how do you even sleep at night!

You have got to be the biggest coward I have ever met...EVERYTHING SCARES YOU, doesn't it?

"What happens when..." "What happens when..." "What happens when..."

My GOD it must be hell to be you and so scared of everything and everyone all the time...I almost feel sorry for you.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

....Or why don't I just put you on ignore again? Yeah, that's a BETTER idea!

Better than explaining your lying bullshit, I suppose.



Interesting that you claimed to have gotten paid in Euros for a "patent" you supposedly sold "back about 15 years ago", when the the Euro wasn't adopted until 1999 - 12 years ago.

No, my country's tax rates are so high, I decided to leave it there instead of bringing it here and being taxed. Back about 15 years ago, my partner and I had patented a process for development of a particular type of high-speed film. We sold our patent to a German-based group affiliated with the film company, and had the option to leave the money in a tax-free account there, or receive it as taxable income here. Since I wasn't hurting for money, and didn't really want to pay the taxes on that much income, I chose to leave it there. I have made several transfers over the years, each time, I have to pay the taxes as if it were earned income. I don't consider myself "rich" so I certainly do mind paying more taxes.

So I pose the question to you again... which would you rather have the tax collection on? The few small transfers I make from my German account here and there? OR-- The tax from dividends produced from that wealth invested in a business here, providing jobs and economic stimulus here? Which would produce more overall tax revenues, and which would provide more boost to the economy? ...Think, dumbshit, think!

​

BTW, you lying lil' turd, how come you didn't bring your imaginary millions home while your imaginary personal pal Bush was president...?






Now, run along and put me on ignore for a few days.



It's so easy beating Dixie like a drum.

 

[zappasguitar]

I think there are a lot of places that depend on the financial and military backing of the US, and if we abandon them, they won't have another choice. They can't fight off the Communists by themselves, and they would be foolish to try. So they would strike deals with them, and we'd lose their trade'

There you have it...Dix cares more about getting cheap deals from other countries than he does about his fellow Americans.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

OMG...how do you even sleep at night!

You have got to be the biggest coward I have ever met...EVERYTHING TERRIFYS YOU, doesn't it?

"What happens when..." "What happens when..." "What happens when..."

My GOD it must be hell to be you and so scared of everything and everyone all the time...I almost feel sorry for you.

It's not cowardice to be conscientious. I am not afraid to jump out of a window because I don't believe I could fly! "What happens when..." is a way of trying to get you pinheads to THINK ABOUT CONSEQUENCES! As the OP says, we've adopted the Rule of Unintended Consequences, where we can do all kinds of crazy extreme shit with the greatest of intentions, and never consider the consequences... because AFTER the fact, when those consequences rear their ugly heads, we can look doe-eyed into the cameras and say.... We didn't know... We couldn't have imagined... We had no idea this would happen.... It's easy to take some extreme view on what should be done... ending foreign aid... tax the rich... make it easy for poor people to buy houses they can't afford... whatever... Then when things turn to shit, we can use the Rule of Unintended Consequences and say... well, we had good intentions, we didn't know this or that would happen as a result. Before we make rash decisions on some extreme draconian measure, we need to evaluate carefully, what could be the possible ramifications, what could be the consequence of our actions? That's not "cowardice" that is pragmatic and smart. But there is a shortage of "smart" among the pinheads.

 

[zappasguitar]

....Or why don't I just put you on ignore again? Yeah, that's a BETTER idea!

That is what a coward does after all...hide behind the ignore button so you won't have to read posts that aren't 110% supportive of your positions.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

There you have it...Dix cares more about getting cheap deals from other countries than he does about his fellow Americans.

It's amazing how you draw inference that just isn't there, over and over and over again. How do you do it? Are you a psychic? Should we start calling you Miss Cleo? I didn't say a thing about cheap deals. I merely pointed out, the countries we give foreign aid to, there is a REASON we give them aid! We don't just willy-nilly dole out money to people for no reason! There are vital American interests at stake, and there would be consequences of withdrawing our aid to those countries, some we could perhaps live with, and some we couldn't. Do you think America could survive paying $25 a gallon for gas, IF we could find it? What do you suppose happens when all the world's oil supply is jeopardized by war and turmoil? Hell, a few bombs go off in Libya and oil shoots up to over $100 a barrel, what happens when there is a real disruption of the supply?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

That is what a coward does after all...hide behind the ignore button so you won't have to read posts that aren't 110% supportive of your positions.

I think the record here shows, I am not afraid of people who differ in opinion. There are dozens of posters who know that I don't back down from a legitimate argument on the substance of anything... I love a good argument, that's why I post here! What I won't tolerate is someone who simply wants to divert and distract and fawn for attention because they are so pathetic. I won't deal with people who aren't interested in legitimate debate, but simply want to throw insults and feces at me personally, I don't need that, don't care to read it, and it has nothing to do with fear or difference of opinion.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

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[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I realize we can't eliminate all foreign aid, but we can eliminate a lot of it now and wean most of the leeches off us completely over time.

And I am not saying you are wrong in that line of thinking, just that you need to always weigh the consequences. There is NO foreign aid we give, in which we don't get something in return, some vital interest is served, or we wouldn't be giving the aid in the first place. Now, perhaps we can live with the consequences, but perhaps we can't? We should at least evaluate these consequences and the circumstances, before making a rash decision. Everything we cut is going to have some consequence... that should be obvious, but we've adopted this Rule of Unintended Consequences, where we can make any reckless decision we want to, based on sheer emotion, and when the chickens come home to roost, we claim we didn't realize this would happen... well, we would have realized it, IF we had considered it beforehand. You want to cut military spending by 30-40%...okay, what is the consequence of that? Are we prepared to deal with those consequences? Thousands of people out of a job, millions of dollars, or billions of dollars, not being pumped back into the economy... all as a result of those cuts. Then we'll have the emotive "special reports" on this family or that family who is now struggling because of the cuts... we'll have examples left and right, of real people who's lives are effected dramatically... are we going to be able to contain our emotions for their situation? We can't possibly take care of all these people who would be displaced... so what is the answer? If we don't have an answer, we should probably think about what we're doing when it comes to these cuts.

 

[DamnYankee]

And I am not saying you are wrong in that line of thinking, just that you need to always weigh the consequences. There is NO foreign aid we give, in which we don't get something in return, some vital interest is served, or we wouldn't be giving the aid in the first place. ...

that's not true at all as shown in my examples of Japan and Germany. And every other foreign aid I'm sure has a large degree of inefficiency and should be slashed in order to force efficiency.

 

[zappasguitar]

It's not cowardice to be conscientious. I am not afraid to jump out of a window because I don't believe I could fly! "What happens when..." is a way of trying to get you pinheads to THINK ABOUT CONSEQUENCES! As the OP says, we've adopted the Rule of Unintended Consequences, where we can do all kinds of crazy extreme shit with the greatest of intentions, and never consider the consequences... because AFTER the fact, when those consequences rear their ugly heads, we can look doe-eyed into the cameras and say.... We didn't know... We couldn't have imagined... We had no idea this would happen.... It's easy to take some extreme view on what should be done... ending foreign aid... tax the rich... make it easy for poor people to buy houses they can't afford... whatever... Then when things turn to shit, we can use the Rule of Unintended Consequences and say... well, we had good intentions, we didn't know this or that would happen as a result. Before we make rash decisions on some extreme draconian measure, we need to evaluate carefully, what could be the possible ramifications, what could be the consequence of our actions? That's not "cowardice" that is pragmatic and smart. But there is a shortage of "smart" among the pinheads.

Look at you...so very certain that every unintended consequence that you worry about is GOING to take place...but see, here's the thing...you can't see the future any better than the Amazing Yurskin.

You can do all the fear mongering you want in order to make others as fearful of everything and everyone as you are, but you've got NO PROOF that the apocalyptic scenarios you play out nightly in your fevered nightmares is any closer to becoming reality than any of the fictional tales of alien invasion playing on the nation's theater and TV screens.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

that's not true at all as shown in my examples of Japan and Germany. And every other foreign aid I'm sure has a large degree of inefficiency and should be slashed in order to force efficiency.

What's not true at all? That all foreign aid is tied to some American interest? I beg to differ, if that's what you are saying. We don't just give aid because we have the extra money to throw around... we have some interest, some reason, some justification, for what we're doing. Now, can we cut the foreign aid? Perhaps we can, but we need to evaluate the consequences first! If we can live with them, fine... cut away! If we can't, or if the consequences are ultimately more detrimental than the aid, we need to fucking think about that. All I am trying to get you (and pinheads) to understand here, is that every action we take has a consequence. If we cut this or that, there will be some consequence to that action, it can't be avoided. Before we become emotive about extreme cuts in anything, we need to examine what the ramifications would be, and if we can live with whatever the consequences are.

 

[Minister of Truth]

Dix I think we could cut military spending by at least that. We're in about 5 wars and we don't need to be, we've got bases all over the world and we don't need them. We're spending money propping up NATO and the UN. Bring all our guys home, enforce the border and let the rest of the world see what its like with us not defending them against each other.

Not a lot we agree on, but this is spot on.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Look at you...so very certain that every unintended consequence that you worry about is GOING to take place...but see, here's the thing...you can't see the future any better than the Amazing Yurskin.

You can do all the fear mongering you want in order to make others as fearful of everything and everyone as you are, but you've got NO PROOF that the apocalyptic scenarios you play out nightly in your fevered nightmares is any closer to becoming reality than any of the fictional tales of alien invasion playing on the nation's theater and TV screens.

It doesn't take much imagination to realize consequences are the result of our actions. There is no action we can take on anything, that is without consequence. There is no "apocalyptic scenario" in the fact that if you cut military spending by 40%, people would lose their jobs, and it would effect the economies of a lot of communities which depend on that military spending. That's just straight up common sense... something you apparently lack.

 

[DamnYankee]

What's not true at all? That all foreign aid is tied to some American interest? I beg to differ, if that's what you are saying. We don't just give aid because we have the extra money to throw around... we have some interest, some reason, some justification, for what we're doing. Now, can we cut the foreign aid? Perhaps we can, but we need to evaluate the consequences first! If we can live with them, fine... cut away! If we can't, or if the consequences are ultimately more detrimental than the aid, we need to fucking think about that. All I am trying to get you (and pinheads) to understand here, is that every action we take has a consequence. If we cut this or that, there will be some consequence to that action, it can't be avoided. Before we become emotive about extreme cuts in anything, we need to examine what the ramifications would be, and if we can live with whatever the consequences are.

As I pointed out he consequences are zilch for Germany and Japan. With regards to the other foreign aid, the main consequence of slashing budgets is to force efficiency. I'm not talking about cutting a little, but at least 50%, and removing the top people who scream the loudest. That way the person who ends up in charge will be forced to prioritize and justify, then show results or the program gets cut in half again the next year.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

As I pointed out he consequences are zilch for Germany and Japan. With regards to the other foreign aid, the main consequence of slashing budgets is to force efficiency. I'm not talking about cutting a little, but at least 50%, and removing the top people who scream the loudest. That way the person who ends up in charge will be forced to prioritize and justify, then show results or the program gets cut in half again the next year.

If you think cutting aid to Germany and Japan would have ZERO consequence, you are wrong. Sorry. You haven't considered all the consequences, maybe you aren't aware of them, or maybe you haven't heard of them? But as I said, every penny of foreign aid we give, is given for a reason.. we have some interest which is being served, that's why we do it. Of course, with the Rule of Unintended Consequences, you can make these kind of statements and do whatever you want... it doesn't matter what happens as a result, you can always claim you didn't know THAT would happen.

 

[DamnYankee]

If you think cutting aid to Germany and Japan would have ZERO consequence, you are wrong. Sorry. You haven't considered all the consequences, maybe you aren't aware of them, or maybe you haven't heard of them? But as I said, every penny of foreign aid we give, is given for a reason.. we have some interest which is being served, that's why we do it. Of course, with the Rule of Unintended Consequences, you can make these kind of statements and do whatever you want... it doesn't matter what happens as a result, you can always claim you didn't know THAT would happen.

Then by all means tell me what these mysterious reasons are.