The U.S. military is spending upward of $1 billion in libya

Bull. You're the one trying to be "cute" here, and since the crisis started, with your Jarod-esque, hyperbolic threads on topic.

This ain't "pre-emptive" in the way Iraq was, and you know it; and it SURE ain't the "Bush Doctrine."

What a completely intellectually dishonest line of reasoning you are engaging in on this one. You lose a notch on the respect-o-meter today...no soup for you!

Bullshit. While I have started threads mocking the left and have used exaggeration in doing so, they still have obviously rung true with you, otherwise your panties would not be bunched so tightly.

As I stated, you incessant need to be cute by saying 'it isn't preemptive the way Iraq was preemptive' is pathetic. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE SAME AS IRAQ TO BE PREEMPTIVE. YOU are the one being dishonest in pretending that it can't be preemptive unless it falls under the Bush Doctrine. That is complete bullshit and you know it.

Again, I am not the one playing intellectually dishonest games. You are. So take your meter and shove it up your ass.
 
Oh - I get it; you don't know what "pre-emptive" means.

Libya was an immediate effort to prevent further slaughter of rebels, which is ongoing. SF understands this, btw, as do most. I don't agree with it, but that's what it is.

Iraq was based on the Bush Doctrine - you're not like Palin, are you? I assume you know what that is. We went to Iraq because of WMD's and the threat they MIGHT pose to us, not to stop any immediate threat.

That's a big, big difference, Yurtsie. Seriously, if you can't see that - just get help....

Libya pre-emptive? The mind boggles....
 
You've been dishonest throughout this, actually. You're on a scale w/ Yurt & bravo now. You guys are upset because the left isn't as loud as they were with Bush, and you hated having to endure that. But you're ignoring the fact that the left is, by & large, against this action, and that the dissent is getting louder & angrier by the day. If this goes on much longer, you'll hear even more; if we put actual troops on the ground, look out. Anti- war people are, for the most part, anti-war. I know - I'm one of them, and I hang with them. You probably don't know many.

Bullshit. While it certainly was annoying having 1000 threads on the same issues, you project too much in saying I hated it. The left is in NO way responding as vocally, is in NO way reacting to this as they did with Bush. It isn't even close. I know plenty of people who are anti-war, so quit making your ignorant presumptions. You hate the fact that you know I am right. Where are all the indignant threads from Desh? Jarod? Nigel? etc... condemning Obama, calling him a war criminal, etc...??? They aren't here, because like the bulk of the left wingnuts, they are hesitant to come out against the messiah.

Scale absolutely matters; for you to tell me with a straight face that the left & the world should display the same outrage about this as Iraq when there were 250,000 troops on the ground in Iraq is laughable. Like I said, watch what happens if we do commit troops to this. With Iraq, the entire world was protesting at the start of '03...and no, it's not just because no one liked Bush.

Again, no, scale does not matter. If you are going to be pissed about a preemptive war... it shouldn't matter whether 20,000 troops or 200,000 are involved. It is the PRINCIPLE you are against. Otherwise you are just a fucking hypocrite. 'well its ok to do it so long as you don't go over my arbitrarily picked number of troops on the ground or my arbitrarily picked number of civilian deaths or my arbitrarily picked number of bombs'

Yes, it WAS because of Bush and how he handled it that fired up the left wingnuts. Thanks for proving my point.

As for the Bush Doctrine & the pre-emptive nature of the conflicts, just give it up. You said JUST YESTERDAY that there was an immediacy to this action due to the ongoing slaughter AND threat of continued slaughter. You know that's why we & the other countries involved acted so fast; death was occurring and would continue to occur. You also know that we invaded Iraq because of WMD's...a genuine pre-emptive war under the Bush doctrine.

you truly are becoming hackish on this. Your desire to paint preemptive into equaling the Bush Doctrine is pathetic. I said yesterday that we went in to prevent the slaughter of civilians. It does not change or alter the fact that it was to PREEMPT that slaughter. You are quite incorrect to pretend that their was an ongoing slaughter. No matter how hard you try and spin, nothing will change the fact that this was preemptive.

Frankly, I'm embarassed for you. You have stooped pretty low w/ this situation, and displayed much more intellectual dishonesty & hypocrisy than anyone you're mocking on the left. As I have said, your threads and comments remind me more of what Jarod would post than anything....

You remind me more of Ditzie and his 1/3 bullshit. you can't admit you were wrong, so you continue to try and spin spin spin. You are the only one of the two of us to be intellectually dishonest. It is you who continues to try and change the definition of the word preemptive to fit into your 'it can only mean the Bush Doctrine or it isn't preemptive' bullshit. Grow the fuck up.
 
LOL ^ talk about utter delusion and apologist babbling....good job obama lover!

libya is in fact as pre-emptive, in reality, much more pre-emptive than iraq....no long term resolutions, no 12 years, no 4th or 20th chances....nope...straight into attack when they were not a threat a threat to us...that is pre-emptive action you little obamabot


Read this, and then stop with the meadow muffins that Libya is more pre-emptive than Iraq.

May 29, 1998

The Honorable Newt Gingrich
Speaker of the House
U.S. House of Representatives
H-232 Capitol Building
Washington, DC 20515-6501

The Honorable Trent Lott
Senate Majority Leader
United States Senate
S-208 Capitol Building
Washington, DC 20510-7010

Dear Mr. Speaker and Senator Lott:

On January 26, we sent a letter to President Clinton expressing our concern that the U.S. policy of "containment" of Saddam Hussein was failing. The result, we argued, would be that the vital interests of the United States and its allies in the Middle East would soon be facing a threat as severe as any we had known since the end of the Cold War. We recommended a substantial change in the direction of U.S. policy: Instead of further, futile efforts to "contain" Saddam, we argued that the only way to protect the United States and its allies from the threat of weapons of mass destruction was to put in place policies that would lead to the removal of Saddam and his regime from power. The administration has not only rejected this advice but, as we warned, has begun to abandon its own policy of containment.

In February, the Clinton Administration embraced the agreement reached between the UN Secretary Koffi Annan and the Iraqi government on February 23. At the time of the agreement, the administration declared that Saddam had "reversed" himself and agreed to permit the UN inspectors full, unfettered, and unlimited access to all sites in Iraq. The administration also declared that the new organizational arrangements worked out by Mr. Annan and the Iraqis would not hamper in any way the free operation of UNSCOM. Finally, the administration stated that, should Iraq return to a posture of defiance, the international community would be united in support of a swift and punishing military action.

According to the UN weapons inspectors, Iraq has yet to provide a complete account of its programs for developing weapons of mass destruction and has continued to obstruct investigations. Sites opened to the inspectors after the agreement had "undergone extensive evacuation," according to the most recent UNSCOM report. UN weapons inspector Charles Duelfer has also pointed to significant problems in the new reporting arrangements worked out by Annan and the Iraqis, warning that these may have "important implications for the authority of UNSCOM and its chief inspectors." And, in the wake of these "Potemkin Village" inspections, the Iraqi government is now insisting that the inspections process be brought to an end and sanctions lifted - going so far as to threaten the U.S. and its allies should its demands not be met.

In the face of this new challenge from Saddam, however, the President's public response has been only to say that he is "encouraged" by Iraq's compliance with the UN inspections and to begin reducing U.S. military forces in the Gulf region. Unwilling either to adopt policies that would remove Saddam or sustain the credibility of its own policy of containment, the administration has placed us on a path that will inevitably free Saddam Hussein from all effective constraints. Even if the administration is able to block Security Council efforts to lift sanctions on Iraq this year, the massive expansion of the so-called "oil for food" program will have the effect of overturning the sanctions regime. It is now safe to predict that, in a year's time, absent a sharp change in U.S. policy, Saddam will be effectively liberated from constraints that have bound him since the end of the Gulf War seven years ago.

The American people need to be made aware of the consequences of this capitulation to Saddam:

-- We will have suffered an incalculable blow to American leadership and credibility; -- We will have sustained a significant defeat in our worldwide efforts to limit the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Other nations seeking to arm themselves with such weapons will have learned that the U.S. lacks the resolve to resist their efforts;

-- The administration will have unnecessarily put at risk U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, who will be vulnerable to attack by biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons under Saddam Hussein's control; -- Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves; and

-- As a consequence of the administration's failure, those nations living under the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction can be expected to adopt policies of accommodation toward Saddam. This could well make Saddam the driving force of Middle East politics, including on such important matters as the Middle East peace process.

Mr. Speaker and Mr. Lott, during the most recent phase of this crisis, you both took strong stands, stating that the goal of U.S. policy should be to bring down Saddam and his regime. And, at the time of the Annan deal, Senator Lott, you pointed out its debilitating weakness and correctly reminded both your colleagues and the nation that "We cannot afford peace at any price."

Now that the administration has failed to provide sound leadership, we believe it is imperative that Congress take what steps it can to correct U.S. policy toward Iraq. That responsibility is especially pressing when presidential leadership is lacking or when the administration is pursuing a policy fundamentally at odds with vital American security interests. This is now the case. To Congress's credit, it has passed legislation providing money to help Iraq's democratic opposition and to establish a "Radio Free Iraq." But more needs to be done, and Congress should do whatever is constitutionally appropriate to establish a sound policy toward Iraq.

U.S. policy should have as its explicit goal removing Saddam Hussein's regime from power and establishing a peaceful and democratic Iraq in its place. We recognize that this goal will not be achieved easily. But the alternative is to leave the initiative to Saddam, who will continue to strengthen his position at home and in the region. Only the U.S. can lead the way in demonstrating that his rule is not legitimate and that time is not on the side of his regime. To accomplish Saddam's removal, the following political and military measures should be undertaken:

-- We should take whatever steps are necessary to challenge Saddam Hussein's claim to be Iraq's legitimate ruler, including indicting him as a war criminal;

-- We should help establish and support (with economic, political, and military means) a provisional, representative, and free government of Iraq in areas of Iraq not under Saddam's control;

-- We should use U.S. and allied military power to provide protection for liberated areas in northern and southern Iraq; and -- We should establish and maintain a strong U.S. military presence in the region, and be prepared to use that force to protect our vital interests in the Gulf - and, if necessary, to help remove Saddam from power

Although the Clinton Administration's handling of the crisis with Iraq has left Saddam Hussein in a stronger position that when the crisis began, the reality is that his regime remains vulnerable to the exercise of American political and military power. There is reason to believe, moreover, that the citizens of Iraq are eager for an alternative to Saddam, and that his grip on power is not firm. This will be much more the case once it is made clear that the U.S. is determined to help remove Saddam from power, and that an acceptable alternative to his rule exists. In short, Saddam's continued rule in Iraq is neither inevitable nor likely if we pursue the policy outlined above in a serious and sustained fashion. If we continue along the present course, however, Saddam will be stronger at home, he will become even more powerful in the region, and we will face the prospect of having to confront him at some later point when the costs to us, our armed forces, and our allies will be even higher. Mr. Speaker and Senator Lott, Congress should adopt the measures necessary to avoid this impending defeat of vital U.S. interests.

Sincerely,

Elliot Abrams William J. Bennett Jeffrey Bergner

John R. Bolton Paula Dobriansky Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan

Zalmay Khalilzad William Kristol Richard Perle Peter Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber Paul Wolfowitz

R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick
 
Bullshit. While I have started threads mocking the left and have used exaggeration in doing so, they still have obviously rung true with you, otherwise your panties would not be bunched so tightly.

As I stated, you incessant need to be cute by saying 'it isn't preemptive the way Iraq was preemptive' is pathetic. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE SAME AS IRAQ TO BE PREEMPTIVE. YOU are the one being dishonest in pretending that it can't be preemptive unless it falls under the Bush Doctrine. That is complete bullshit and you know it.

Again, I am not the one playing intellectually dishonest games. You are. So take your meter and shove it up your ass.

Oh, you definitely are. You know this situation is not comparable to Iraq on anything beyond a superficial level - whether we're talking Bush Doctrine, or scale, or any one of a myriad of factors involved. But you're trying to pretend they are, so you & yours (who have collectively started well over a dozen threads with the same "theme") can try to overcome your years of frustration trying to defend Bush by creating some sort of equivalency here.

Sorry it's not working out for you...
 
Oh, you definitely are. You know this situation is not comparable to Iraq on anything beyond a superficial level - whether we're talking Bush Doctrine, or scale, or any one of a myriad of factors involved. But you're trying to pretend they are, so you & yours (who have collectively started well over a dozen threads with the same "theme") can try to overcome your years of frustration trying to defend Bush by creating some sort of equivalency here.

Sorry it's not working out for you...

Again, you are feebly attempting to equate the 7 years in Iraq to the week in Libya. You are so focused on saying 'well if the scale isn't the same the situation isn't the same'. Of course the scale isn't the same you fucking hack. I have NEVER, NOT ONCE said they are the same scale.

I stated clearly, yet you are too fucking ignorant to comprehend, what IS the SAME is the fact that Obama started a preemptive war.

On another point... you have proclaimed time and again that Code Pink and others are protesting Obama over Libya.... PLEASE LINK US UP TO AN EXAMPLE OF THESE PROTESTS, because I have yet to be able to find one.

You can also stop the bullshit straw man of 'you are frustrated over the years of Bush' line of crap. That dog ain't gunna hunt. It is pathetic on your part. I started out mocking the left and you decided to get your panties in a bunch over it. you pathetic piece of shit.
 
Read this, and then stop with the meadow muffins that Libya is more pre-emptive than Iraq.

May 29, 1998

The Honorable Newt Gingrich
Speaker of the House
U.S. House of Representatives
H-232 Capitol Building
Washington, DC 20515-6501

The Honorable Trent Lott
Senate Majority Leader
United States Senate
S-208 Capitol Building
Washington, DC 20510-7010

Dear Mr. Speaker and Senator Lott:

On January 26, we sent a letter to President Clinton expressing our concern that the U.S. policy of "containment" of Saddam Hussein was failing. The result, we argued, would be that the vital interests of the United States and its allies in the Middle East would soon be facing a threat as severe as any we had known since the end of the Cold War. We recommended a substantial change in the direction of U.S. policy: Instead of further, futile efforts to "contain" Saddam, we argued that the only way to protect the United States and its allies from the threat of weapons of mass destruction was to put in place policies that would lead to the removal of Saddam and his regime from power. The administration has not only rejected this advice but, as we warned, has begun to abandon its own policy of containment.

In February, the Clinton Administration embraced the agreement reached between the UN Secretary Koffi Annan and the Iraqi government on February 23. At the time of the agreement, the administration declared that Saddam had "reversed" himself and agreed to permit the UN inspectors full, unfettered, and unlimited access to all sites in Iraq. The administration also declared that the new organizational arrangements worked out by Mr. Annan and the Iraqis would not hamper in any way the free operation of UNSCOM. Finally, the administration stated that, should Iraq return to a posture of defiance, the international community would be united in support of a swift and punishing military action.

According to the UN weapons inspectors, Iraq has yet to provide a complete account of its programs for developing weapons of mass destruction and has continued to obstruct investigations. Sites opened to the inspectors after the agreement had "undergone extensive evacuation," according to the most recent UNSCOM report. UN weapons inspector Charles Duelfer has also pointed to significant problems in the new reporting arrangements worked out by Annan and the Iraqis, warning that these may have "important implications for the authority of UNSCOM and its chief inspectors." And, in the wake of these "Potemkin Village" inspections, the Iraqi government is now insisting that the inspections process be brought to an end and sanctions lifted - going so far as to threaten the U.S. and its allies should its demands not be met.

In the face of this new challenge from Saddam, however, the President's public response has been only to say that he is "encouraged" by Iraq's compliance with the UN inspections and to begin reducing U.S. military forces in the Gulf region. Unwilling either to adopt policies that would remove Saddam or sustain the credibility of its own policy of containment, the administration has placed us on a path that will inevitably free Saddam Hussein from all effective constraints. Even if the administration is able to block Security Council efforts to lift sanctions on Iraq this year, the massive expansion of the so-called "oil for food" program will have the effect of overturning the sanctions regime. It is now safe to predict that, in a year's time, absent a sharp change in U.S. policy, Saddam will be effectively liberated from constraints that have bound him since the end of the Gulf War seven years ago.

The American people need to be made aware of the consequences of this capitulation to Saddam:

-- We will have suffered an incalculable blow to American leadership and credibility; -- We will have sustained a significant defeat in our worldwide efforts to limit the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Other nations seeking to arm themselves with such weapons will have learned that the U.S. lacks the resolve to resist their efforts;

-- The administration will have unnecessarily put at risk U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, who will be vulnerable to attack by biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons under Saddam Hussein's control; -- Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves; and

-- As a consequence of the administration's failure, those nations living under the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction can be expected to adopt policies of accommodation toward Saddam. This could well make Saddam the driving force of Middle East politics, including on such important matters as the Middle East peace process.

Mr. Speaker and Mr. Lott, during the most recent phase of this crisis, you both took strong stands, stating that the goal of U.S. policy should be to bring down Saddam and his regime. And, at the time of the Annan deal, Senator Lott, you pointed out its debilitating weakness and correctly reminded both your colleagues and the nation that "We cannot afford peace at any price."

Now that the administration has failed to provide sound leadership, we believe it is imperative that Congress take what steps it can to correct U.S. policy toward Iraq. That responsibility is especially pressing when presidential leadership is lacking or when the administration is pursuing a policy fundamentally at odds with vital American security interests. This is now the case. To Congress's credit, it has passed legislation providing money to help Iraq's democratic opposition and to establish a "Radio Free Iraq." But more needs to be done, and Congress should do whatever is constitutionally appropriate to establish a sound policy toward Iraq.

U.S. policy should have as its explicit goal removing Saddam Hussein's regime from power and establishing a peaceful and democratic Iraq in its place. We recognize that this goal will not be achieved easily. But the alternative is to leave the initiative to Saddam, who will continue to strengthen his position at home and in the region. Only the U.S. can lead the way in demonstrating that his rule is not legitimate and that time is not on the side of his regime. To accomplish Saddam's removal, the following political and military measures should be undertaken:

-- We should take whatever steps are necessary to challenge Saddam Hussein's claim to be Iraq's legitimate ruler, including indicting him as a war criminal;

-- We should help establish and support (with economic, political, and military means) a provisional, representative, and free government of Iraq in areas of Iraq not under Saddam's control;

-- We should use U.S. and allied military power to provide protection for liberated areas in northern and southern Iraq; and -- We should establish and maintain a strong U.S. military presence in the region, and be prepared to use that force to protect our vital interests in the Gulf - and, if necessary, to help remove Saddam from power

Although the Clinton Administration's handling of the crisis with Iraq has left Saddam Hussein in a stronger position that when the crisis began, the reality is that his regime remains vulnerable to the exercise of American political and military power. There is reason to believe, moreover, that the citizens of Iraq are eager for an alternative to Saddam, and that his grip on power is not firm. This will be much more the case once it is made clear that the U.S. is determined to help remove Saddam from power, and that an acceptable alternative to his rule exists. In short, Saddam's continued rule in Iraq is neither inevitable nor likely if we pursue the policy outlined above in a serious and sustained fashion. If we continue along the present course, however, Saddam will be stronger at home, he will become even more powerful in the region, and we will face the prospect of having to confront him at some later point when the costs to us, our armed forces, and our allies will be even higher. Mr. Speaker and Senator Lott, Congress should adopt the measures necessary to avoid this impending defeat of vital U.S. interests.

Sincerely,

Elliot Abrams William J. Bennett Jeffrey Bergner

John R. Bolton Paula Dobriansky Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan

Zalmay Khalilzad William Kristol Richard Perle Peter Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber Paul Wolfowitz

R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

i did read it....did you? because it does nothing to change my point and in fact makes you look silly....are you claiming iraq was more preemptive than libya? really? on what basis? a 1998 letter? LOL
 
i did read it....did you? because it does nothing to change my point and in fact makes you look silly....are you claiming iraq was more preemptive than libya? really? on what basis? a 1998 letter? LOL

I'm starting to thing you really are just dumb...
 
I'd actually put you guys a notch above Dix, but not by much. Dix sort of has his own category....

you do realize no one cares what you think...do you really think your shrill attacks trying to compare me, sf, bravo etc.... to others really works? its a loser, a bomb, a dud...and in all honestly, if you really want to play that game, jarod a notch above you....at least he is honest and is able to admit he is wrong and call out the left....you're a bigger left wing apologists than he his, and of course the dishonesty puts you at the bottom.

bush's preemptive doctrine was about preventing a threat...if you actually read bush's doctrine with an honest eye, you would see that obama's reasons for libya are virtually the same. to prevent gaddafi from attacking his citizens, prevent him from gaining more power and the desire to remove him from power. numerous other countries are engaged in brutal civil war, yet we don't launch hundreds of missiles on their soil. your inability to see beyond your apologist view causes you to think that the only reason we are engaged in this preemptive attack is solely to protect the citizens or rebels. if that was the case, why aren't we launching attacks against yemen or other countries? because it isn't the only reason, gaddafi's actions present a POTENTIAL harm to US geopolitical interests, so obama, preemptively struck first.

you can apologize for obama all day long and say you're worried about those who disagree with you, but the reality of is, you're the one blinded to reality.
 
I'm starting to thing you really are just dumb...

thats a really good response onceler....top notch...odd though, given you've said the same comment to me for years now...are you mentally stable

btw...if you can't rationally respond are here to simply spout YOU'RE DUMB!!!!!! YOU CAN'T READ!!!!!!! YOU'RE A LIAR!!!!!.....what does that about you?
 
i did read it....did you? because it does nothing to change my point and in fact makes you look silly....are you claiming iraq was more preemptive than libya? really? on what basis? a 1998 letter? LOL

Freakin' unbelievable. :palm:

I posted a letter that states a group of conservatives were itching to strike Iraq. Five years before the actual war they were looking for a sucker to buy into their BS but Clinton wasn't having it. bush was their patsy.

If you can't read the letter (and other info re: the aims of PNAC) and understand that neocons were planning to strike Iraq for years, you are being disingenuous to the extreme.

Now, show me some information stating that Obama's plans for a no-fly zone over Libya have been years in the making, and then you'll have an argument that the two situations are the same.

"...we argued that the only way to protect the United States and its allies from the threat of weapons of mass destruction was to put in place policies that would lead to the removal of Saddam and his regime from power."

"...We will have suffered an incalculable blow to American leadership and credibility;"

"...We should use U.S. and allied military power to provide protection for liberated areas in northern and southern Iraq; and ,We should establish and maintain a strong U.S. military presence in the region, and be prepared to use that force to protect our vital interests in the Gulf - and, if necessary, to help remove Saddam from power...

"...The administration will have unnecessarily put at risk U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, who will be vulnerable to attack by biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons under Saddam Hussein's control;"

"...As a consequence of the administration's failure, those nations living under the threat of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction can be expected to adopt policies of accommodation toward Saddam..."
 
christie....i know your hound dog tom loves you....but i have to be honest with you.....how does a letter dated FIVE YEARS prior to the iraq war mean that libya is "LESS" preemptive?

your letter only serves as PROOF that my claim is right.....that we waited YEARS to go into iraq

honestly....because you genuinely seem to believe this, how does your dated letter debunk my claim? if anything, it proves my claim..."itching" to do something does not equal a preemptive strike

i could also cite for you numerous democrats that wanted the same the thing....

the reality of a preemptive war or strike is --- when <--- pay attention to that christie....you make the actual strike. talking about it means NOTHING. and proves nothing in regards to your weak attempts to debunk my comments.

really christie, you can do better than this
 
thats a really good response onceler....top notch...odd though, given you've said the same comment to me for years now...are you mentally stable

btw...if you can't rationally respond are here to simply spout YOU'RE DUMB!!!!!! YOU CAN'T READ!!!!!!! YOU'RE A LIAR!!!!!.....what does that about you?

Sorry, but it is dumb, or something. I'm really not sure what. What you're trying to do - putting things like "invasion" and "pre-emptive action" on an equal playing field as these concepts relate to both Iraq & Libya - it's really lacking in intelligence, or it's incredibly intellectually dishonest. You can choose which one, but the comparisons you're making are laughable to the extreme.

I figured there would be some instant tit-for-tat when Libya broke out, but I never would have predicted the brain-freeze I'm seeing out of the right. You guys are incredible on this - especially the pre-emptive nature of Iraq. It is hopelessly dishonest to say it's the same thing as Libya, or even essentially the same thing. It's pretty crazy. I think you believe it, though - which is why I'm questioning your intelligence...
 
christie....i know your hound dog tom loves you....but i have to be honest with you.....how does a letter dated FIVE YEARS prior to the iraq war mean that libya is "LESS" preemptive?

your letter only serves as PROOF that my claim is right.....that we waited YEARS to go into iraq

honestly....because you genuinely seem to believe this, how does your dated letter debunk my claim? if anything, it proves my claim..."itching" to do something does not equal a preemptive strike

i could also cite for you numerous democrats that wanted the same the thing....

the reality of a preemptive war or strike is --- when <--- pay attention to that christie....you make the actual strike. talking about it means NOTHING. and proves nothing in regards to your weak attempts to debunk my comments.

really christie, you can do better than this

Really, you are a prime example of someone who can't see the forest for the trees. If you don't understand something, or need more information, just ask, there's no shame in admitting it. Instead you go off on a rant that focuses on one tiny corner of the big picture.

This letter is just one item in a long chain of evidence that points to the fact that righties wanted to invade Iraq and eliminate Saddam long before bush was in the WH and a willing participant in their plans. As far back as 1995, UNSCOM knew and reported that "All weapons, biological, chemical, missile, nuclear, were destroyed." (The UNSCOM record of the session can ne viewed at http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.pdf). The CIA and MI6 had this information and it was ignored.

I don't need to go into detail about all the info that came out in bits and pieces after the invasion, on how the U.S. was duped. It's all there for you to read and digest before going off like you do. But the bottom line is, Iraq was in conservative crosshairs for years. The same cannot be said for Obama and Libya.
 
Really, you are a prime example of someone who can't see the forest for the trees. If you don't understand something, or need more information, just ask, there's no shame in admitting it. Instead you go off on a rant that focuses on one tiny corner of the big picture.

This letter is just one item in a long chain of evidence that points to the fact that righties wanted to invade Iraq and eliminate Saddam long before bush was in the WH and a willing participant in their plans. As far back as 1995, UNSCOM knew and reported that "All weapons, biological, chemical, missile, nuclear, were destroyed." (The UNSCOM record of the session can ne viewed at http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.pdf). The CIA and MI6 had this information and it was ignored.

I don't need to go into detail about all the info that came out in bits and pieces after the invasion, on how the U.S. was duped. It's all there for you to read and digest before going off like you do. But the bottom line is, Iraq was in conservative crosshairs for years. The same cannot be said for Obama and Libya.

christie:

do you understand the difference between "want" and "action"? there is a world of difference. and you could go back a thousand years with your "wants", it would not change anything regarding obama's preemptive "war" (because the politicians lack the balls to declare it).

time has nothing to do with preemptive action. if you really want to get into preemptive action as RASH......then obama takes the cup. christie, you're claiming that because some repubs, 3 years prior to bush taking office, THOUGHT about something, that this must mean that it was preemptive.............christie.............that in and of itself does not make it preemptive.

if you want to build your case for bush's doctrine, eg., preemptive war, then start a bit closer to the time he took the US military, not only in air, but on the ground into iraq.
 
Sorry, but it is dumb, or something. I'm really not sure what. What you're trying to do - putting things like "invasion" and "pre-emptive action" on an equal playing field as these concepts relate to both Iraq & Libya - it's really lacking in intelligence, or it's incredibly intellectually dishonest. You can choose which one, but the comparisons you're making are laughable to the extreme.

I figured there would be some instant tit-for-tat when Libya broke out, but I never would have predicted the brain-freeze I'm seeing out of the right. You guys are incredible on this - especially the pre-emptive nature of Iraq. It is hopelessly dishonest to say it's the same thing as Libya, or even essentially the same thing. It's pretty crazy. I think you believe it, though - which is why I'm questioning your intelligence...

good lord, you're a broken record...at least christie brings new arguments
 
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