The U.S. military is spending upward of $1 billion in libya
- Thread starter Cancel 2018. 3
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Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
and you have? you're so smart, you're so SUPER smart, you're SO SUPER INTELLECTUAL, you don't need to explain things.....you are the the JPP OVERLORD
when you can explain things, instead of your routine weak ad homs, then you might pull some "intellectual" weight.....
until then....
christiefan915
Catalyst
OMG. You are just so, so ignorant it boggles the mind.
Go to the PNAC website below, it's all there.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
SF, I think Onzies may have a valid point here, believe it or not! One week into Iraq, the left wasn't making much anti-war noise against Bush... in fact, the Democrats voted with Republicans to give the president authorization to use military force in Iraq... they were all for it, at first. It was later on down the road, when they saw a political opportunity to exploit the war and vicariously re-live Vietnam, that's when we saw the Cyndy Shehans and condemnation of Bush over Iraq. I'm sure, in a few months, if this doesn't blow over, or if Obama escalates our involvement, lefties like Onzies will be talking of trying Obama for war crimes and such... we just need to give them time.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
PNAC was stuffed with people like William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Donald Rumsfeld. PNAC not only advocated war on Iraq it also wanted the US to invade eastern Saudi Arabia. They tried to persuade Clinton but he wisely showed them the door, they had to wait for 9/11 and a patsy like Bush to turn up to get their way. I can't really believe that any of this is unknown to you so I can only assume that you are playing your usual mindgames.
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apple0154
MEOW
The Bush Doctrine. (Excerpt) The phrase initially described the policy that the United States had the right to secure itself against countries that harbor or give aid to terrorist groups, which was used to justify the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.
Different pundits would attribute different meanings to "the Bush Doctrine", as it came to describe other elements, including the controversial policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented a potential or perceived threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate; a policy of spreading democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating terrorism; and a willingness to unilaterally pursue U.S. military interests.(End) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine
The way I see it the Bush Doctrine covers just about everything. Preventive war even if that threat is not immediate. Spreading democracy. Combating terrorism. Unilaterally pursuing U.S. military interests…..Did they leave anything out? Is there any action that would NOT fall under one of those conditions?
As for “humanitarian effort” that has to be the most bogus excuse given. The protesters in Libya were permitted to protest. Problems arose when they started to block access to cities. The “protesters” became “rebels”. What country would not try to enforce stability? What country would not attempt to regain order? Of course Gadaffi is after the rebels. Any leader of any country would do the same thing if/when protesters attempted to take over access to a city.
The rebels have no official leader and the result will be the same as we see in Iraq and Afghanistan. The terrorists/Al Qaeda will move in. Of course, that’s the bait ‘n switch. Libya is thrown into chaos due to the “humanitarian effort”, the terrorists move in, then it’s boots on the ground to fight terrorism. And we’ll all sit around asking, “What happened? What went wrong?”
Whether or not Obama passes the authority to the allies regarding Libya the damage has already been done. If Gadaffi doesn’t regain control of Libya it will become another Iraq/Afghanistan and US troops will be in there, sooner rather than later.
Different pundits would attribute different meanings to "the Bush Doctrine", as it came to describe other elements, including the controversial policy of preventive war, which held that the United States should depose foreign regimes that represented a potential or perceived threat to the security of the United States, even if that threat was not immediate; a policy of spreading democracy around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating terrorism; and a willingness to unilaterally pursue U.S. military interests.(End) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine
The way I see it the Bush Doctrine covers just about everything. Preventive war even if that threat is not immediate. Spreading democracy. Combating terrorism. Unilaterally pursuing U.S. military interests…..Did they leave anything out? Is there any action that would NOT fall under one of those conditions?
As for “humanitarian effort” that has to be the most bogus excuse given. The protesters in Libya were permitted to protest. Problems arose when they started to block access to cities. The “protesters” became “rebels”. What country would not try to enforce stability? What country would not attempt to regain order? Of course Gadaffi is after the rebels. Any leader of any country would do the same thing if/when protesters attempted to take over access to a city.
The rebels have no official leader and the result will be the same as we see in Iraq and Afghanistan. The terrorists/Al Qaeda will move in. Of course, that’s the bait ‘n switch. Libya is thrown into chaos due to the “humanitarian effort”, the terrorists move in, then it’s boots on the ground to fight terrorism. And we’ll all sit around asking, “What happened? What went wrong?”
Whether or not Obama passes the authority to the allies regarding Libya the damage has already been done. If Gadaffi doesn’t regain control of Libya it will become another Iraq/Afghanistan and US troops will be in there, sooner rather than later.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
Libya is an artificial country created by the Italians in 1911, the best solution would be for East and West Libya to go their separate ways. This isn't the same as Iraq, Libya has a population of only six million people whereas Iraq is over 30 million. It also nearly three times the size of Texas with 90% desert, there is over 400 miles of virtually nothing between Tripoli and Benghazi. Once established East Libya or maybe Cyrenaica as it used to be known would be self supporting and easily defensible against Gaddafi or his successor. They also have a leader so it is not the disparate rabble portrayed by the ignorant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Abdul_Jalil
christiefan915
Catalyst
I don't think he's smart enough to be playing mind games. I thinks he's naive and uninformed about that part of the past, and he's trying his best to seem knowledgeable, but most of us can see through the BS.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
No moron, that is your problem. YOU continue to equate the 'scale' of the two. I am talking about the initial reaction, the protests. They were loud and vociferous from day one.
Have you found a link to the Code Pink protests of Obama's actions in Libya yet???
There were huge protests around the world from day 1 on Iraq. There weren't on Afghanistan.
I'll let you answer this. Why do you think that is? Take your time.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Not talking about the Democrat politicians ditzie. I am talking about the protesters. Code Pink had a protest march to protest the PROSPECT of war in Iraq. We hadn't even gone in yet and they were protesting.... which is their right to do obviously, but the point is, I have not seen nor heard of any march's on Washington to protest Obama's bombing. Oncelor assures me they have taken place. I am awaiting his linkage to such events with baited breath.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Afghanistan harbored the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11. Iraq posed no direct threat to the US. Libya poses no direct threat to the US.
Also.... just so you know.... Code Pink was founded to stop the war in Afghanistan and then added Iraq to their portfolio once it was clear we were likely going in.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Still waiting on your links to the protests you assure us are occurring..... Shall we expect them anytime soon????
Code Pink protests every military engagement. My question was separate from them, but I forgot how obtuse you're being on this. My point was that there were HUGE protests throughout the world on Iraq, and the reason for that is that it was an unnecessary war, waged while there were still other options on the table, and waged on a tremendous scale, with 250,000 troops amassed on the border or Iraq for months ahead of time. Oh, I forgot - scale doesn't matter, unless you're Superfreak or Yurt - then you need to see the exact same scale of protest for every conflict from the left.
Go to codepink4peace.org - their most recent protest outside the LA Fed building is on the front page. It's an anti-war group; they're always against using our military.
To distill it down to "Iraq posed no threat...Libya poses no threat," and try to pretend that means Iraq=Libya is the height of stupidity, btw. And it's funny how you & Yurt are on this - it's not enough that the left by & large opposes this. We have to oppose it exactly like we did Iraq, because those situations are SO similar.
You guys don't know what hackery is; when I opposed Iraq, I had righties tell me I was a traitor, that I hated America, and that Iraq was the greatest military achievement of our generation....
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Most of the mid east and northern Africa are 'artificial countries' as you call them. They are the remnants of the Ottoman Empire.
I doubt you will ever get Libya to split East vs. West given the bulk of their oil reserves are in the East. But I understand the sentiment. In an ideal world the mideast would have been split into Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish countries as well.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
We know exactly what hackery is...... you have displayed it throughout this thread.
Such a lazy, weak answer.
I'll acknowledge that you're usually a pretty intelligent poster, so I have a hunch you realize how untenable your position is. Your bloodlust for some sort of perceived hypocrisy on the left is too strong, though - it's overriding your instincts to display more reason & rationality on this topic.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I took a look at their website. Not seeing the protest you are referring to. Did look at their calendar and not one of the groups in any of the cities listed had anything on protesting Obama's Libyan war.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Again moron.... I was MOCKING THOSE ON THE LEFT.... Hence the use of the entire population of Libya minus one survivor. It is you who got your panties all bunched up. You are so desperate to make sure that Obama is not lumped in the same category as Bush that you deny any similarities in the two. Hence your insane and pathetic attempts to pretend that his actions weren't preemptive. You are the one acting in an irrational manner on this topic. It was you who assured us there were protests against the actions in Libya... yet there are none.
Right on the cover page - protest of a Fed Building in LA on Monday, specifically about Libya...