What advice would you give this young woman?

Look, what we actually know is that her father died, and her mother had a heart attack and is on expensive medicine. And we know that she tried for 4 years to win the title of Miss Colorado.

You asked what advice we would give this woman. I gave some very simple advice. Get your mother covered by one of the gov't programs designed for people in situations like hers. Find out why the eviction was a surprise.

You pressed the issue asking me about her mother's pre-existing condition. I stated that I could not make any call about that, and then purposefully used two examples that would not be particularly common. I did not suggest they were actual reasons, but used them as examples as why, since we do not know about her pre-existing condition it could be anything.

I also talked about the expense of entering pageants. I did not invent anything on this topic. I simply discussed a common theme for pageant entry and saw it as a possible reason for some of the financial problems.



Nothing I have said is carved in stone. Nor is anything I said beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, what I have said would be typical versions of what could have happened.

Look Mojo, your one-trick game has not gotten better. If you want to play this again, find a better topic for a "gotcha. You got schooled by several people, and both liberals and conservatives have questioned your "version" of what happened.
 
Joe Sestak said:
You "cannot make a blanket statement about a pre-existing condition"? Yet you named two uncommon specific causes, neither of which was suggested anywhere. One of them has very negative connotations.

True, you insinuated it.
Click to expand...

What I said was "I cannot make a blanket statement about a pre-existing condition without knowing more. Was it a genetic problem or cocaine abuse? Depending on what the cause of the pre-existing condition, and depending on whether it is life threatening or disabling, the gov't should step in and be able to help.

The examples were purposefully out there, since I was making the point that without knowing I could not comment.
 
WinterBorn said:
What I said was "I cannot make a blanket statement about a pre-existing condition without knowing more. Was it a genetic problem or cocaine abuse? Depending on what the cause of the pre-existing condition, and depending on whether it is life threatening or disabling, the gov't should step in and be able to help.

The examples were purposefully out there, since I was making the point that without knowing I could not comment.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.
 
WinterBorn said:
Look, what we actually know is that her father died, and her mother had a heart attack and is on expensive medicine. And we know that she tried for 4 years to win the title of Miss Colorado.

You asked what advice we would give this woman. I gave some very simple advice. Get your mother covered by one of the gov't programs designed for people in situations like hers. Find out why the eviction was a surprise.

You pressed the issue asking me about her mother's pre-existing condition. I stated that I could not make any call about that, and then purposefully used two examples that would not be particularly common. I did not suggest they were actual reasons, but used them as examples as why, since we do not know about her pre-existing condition it could be anything.

I also talked about the expense of entering pageants. I did not invent anything on this topic. I simply discussed a common theme for pageant entry and saw it as a possible reason for some of the financial problems.



Nothing I have said is carved in stone. Nor is anything I said beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, what I have said would be typical versions of what could have happened.

Look Mojo, your one-trick game has not gotten better. If you want to play this again, find a better topic for a "gotcha. You got schooled by several people, and both liberals and conservatives have questioned your "version" of what happened.
Click to expand...

:good4u:
 
Joe Sestak said:
Unless the "NUMEROUS pageant contestants" of your acquaintance include the current Miss Colorado, how does your anecdotal evidence apply?
Click to expand...
What evidence do you have that unlike every other pageant contestant who spends more on gowns than I do on mortgage this one did it on the cheap?
 
WinterBorn said:
Look, what we actually know is that her father died, and her mother had a heart attack and is on expensive medicine. And we know that she tried for 4 years to win the title of Miss Colorado.

You asked what advice we would give this woman. I gave some very simple advice. Get your mother covered by one of the gov't programs designed for people in situations like hers. Find out why the eviction was a surprise.

You pressed the issue asking me about her mother's pre-existing condition. I stated that I could not make any call about that, and then purposefully used two examples that would not be particularly common. I did not suggest they were actual reasons, but used them as examples as why, since we do not know about her pre-existing condition it could be anything.

I also talked about the expense of entering pageants. I did not invent anything on this topic. I simply discussed a common theme for pageant entry and saw it as a possible reason for some of the financial problems.



Nothing I have said is carved in stone. Nor is anything I said beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, what I have said would be typical versions of what could have happened.

Look Mojo, your one-trick game has not gotten better. If you want to play this again, find a better topic for a "gotcha. You got schooled by several people, and both liberals and conservatives have questioned your "version" of what happened.
Click to expand...
The dude doesn't want rational discussion, he wants you to tell him that Obamacare would have saved the day, she would have won the pagaent, bought a mansion, daddy would get a heart transplant that would bring him back to life, and so they lived happily ever after...
 
Joe Sestak said:
Your assumptions may be correct, or they may not.

The difference is that you attribute her homelessness to a lack of acumen or some other quality. I attribute it to tragedy compounded by happenstance.



You stated she spent money "trying to win a pageant".

Possibly, she did.

Equally possibly, she didn't.

Perhaps she was helped by generous people who admire her spirit.

Did you ever wonder how a young woman in her circumstances (school, retail job, mom unable to work) could spend much money in the first place?

How do you know she didn't help with the bills?



You say you "do not know how much she spent". Yet you repeatedly say she "spent" and "feel fairly certain it was not even close to being free". Who said it was free?



Again, you mention "free". This is beginning to look like a strawman argument.




It does if you're not the person responsible for paying the rent.



You "cannot make a blanket statement about a pre-existing condition"? Yet you named two uncommon specific causes, neither of which was suggested anywhere. One of them has very negative connotations.



Why those two?




I didn't say it was "free". Are you suggesting that not proving a claim I didn't make is some kind of victory for you?




She was?

Who was it obvious to?

She's 23 now. If her mother hid the extent of their financial plight from her young daughter, how would she have known?



She probably obtained evening gowns, shoes, and perhaps even coaches. How could she pay for them? You failed to mention that. Is it possible they were lent by a supportive employer (Saks) proud of her accomplishments?



True, you insinuated it.
Click to expand...

Since you're so busy defending their behavior and denigrating any other possibilites, why don't you show proof of how she was able to do this?
Unless of course your only taking this stance, so that you can continue to throw out your strawman whining about how this all because there's no Obama Care at this time.
 
I think her mother, knowing the fit was going to hit the shan, simply didn't want to tell her daughter because she would have given up on the dream to help the family.
 
Damocles said:
What evidence do you have that unlike every other pageant contestant who spends more on gowns than I do on mortgage this one did it on the cheap?
Click to expand...

Other than the facts that she authors a blog advsing other young ladies on entering pageant competitions on shoestring budgets and her lack of personal wealth, none.

I didn't claim she won "on the cheap", or for "free", as some have suggested.

I took issue with those who stated that she spent large sums without any supporting evidence.

See the difference?
 
so are you proposing dumbasses face no financial risk whatsoever in thier lives, big nanny statism on roids?
 
Joe Sestak said:
Other than the facts that she authors a blog advsing other young ladies on entering pageant competitions on shoestring budgets and her lack of personal wealth, none.

I didn't claim she won "on the cheap", or for "free", as some have suggested.

I took issue with those who stated that she spent large sums without any supporting evidence.

See the difference?
Click to expand...

I think you miss the point when someone talks about "large sums". The term is relative. But the point is, if the household cannot pay the basic bills, spending money on other things is not smart. And more importantly, if you choose to spend money on other things, the consequences should be accepted.
 
Damocles said:
She works at Saks Fifth Avenue in Denver. Of course in June they are closing their doors.
Click to expand...

She is probably a quality employee and shouldn't have a difficult time getting another job. If her job doesn't pay well enough to afford the expense of being a pageant queen then she needs to adjust her lifestyle to fit her income.
 
Joe Sestak said:
Other than the facts that she authors a blog advsing other young ladies on entering pageant competitions on shoestring budgets and her lack of personal wealth, none.

I didn't claim she won "on the cheap", or for "free", as some have suggested.

I took issue with those who stated that she spent large sums without any supporting evidence.

See the difference?
Click to expand...

This human interest story is designed to shock us by illustrating how anyone can become homeless, even a Miss USA contestant. The problem is, it fails miserably, because people are smart enough to think through it, for the most part. Certainly, there were MANY things that could have been done to prevent her from being homeless. Sell some of those pageant dresses and shoes! Everyone associated with beauty pageants knows, you don't ever wear the same evening gown twice! It's a pageant no-no! So why not turn those old dresses into rent money? Or, write a book on how to compete and win beauty pageants... she obviously knows how to do that, she made it to Miss USA... and she is not that good looking, so she must know some secrets! Desktop publishing is huge these days, everyone has a book... I bet she could probably STILL write a book, about being a homeless beauty queen, and it would fly off the shelves... she and her mom could be living in a mansion in a year, if her book makes it to the bestseller list. Do some 'consulting' work for other aspiring beauty queens, teach them the tricks of the trade, I bet she could make enough to pay the rent doing that. So we see, there are many things that she COULD have done, but didn't. Thus, she is homeless now.

I'm sorry, not finding much sympathy for this "victim" here. I know how much those women spend on competing in pageants, I worked with them, it's information I have first-hand. To sit here and listen to a bunch of pinheads whining that "it hasn't been proven..." is just lame. If you're that much of a fucking retard, no one will ever be able to have a reasonable conversation with you.
 
WinterBorn said:
I think you miss the point when someone talks about "large sums". The term is relative. But the point is, if the household cannot pay the basic bills, spending money on other things is not smart. And more importantly, if you choose to spend money on other things, the consequences should be accepted.
Click to expand...

Again, you're posting that she spent money without any idea whether she did or not.

Have you read her comments? She sounds like a brave and determined individual to me. Hasn't blamed anyone or tried to exculpate anyone.

That said, she could have spent some money, but none of you knows, so why are you condemning her as if she's to blame for her situation?
 
Dixie said:
This human interest story is designed to shock us by illustrating how anyone can become homeless, even a Miss USA contestant. The problem is, it fails miserably, because people are smart enough to think through it, for the most part. Certainly, there were MANY things that could have been done to prevent her from being homeless. Sell some of those pageant dresses and shoes! Everyone associated with beauty pageants knows, you don't ever wear the same evening gown twice! It's a pageant no-no! So why not turn those old dresses into rent money? Or, write a book on how to compete and win beauty pageants... she obviously knows how to do that, she made it to Miss USA... and she is not that good looking, so she must know some secrets! Desktop publishing is huge these days, everyone has a book... I bet she could probably STILL write a book, about being a homeless beauty queen, and it would fly off the shelves... she and her mom could be living in a mansion in a year, if her book makes it to the bestseller list. Do some 'consulting' work for other aspiring beauty queens, teach them the tricks of the trade, I bet she could make enough to pay the rent doing that. So we see, there are many things that she COULD have done, but didn't. Thus, she is homeless now.

I'm sorry, not finding much sympathy for this "victim" here. I know how much those women spend on competing in pageants, I worked with them, it's information I have first-hand. To sit here and listen to a bunch of pinheads whining that "it hasn't been proven..." is just lame. If you're that much of a fucking retard, no one will ever be able to have a reasonable conversation with you.
Click to expand...

Non sequitur.

Try this.

I know some people who paid large sums for an automobile.

This woman was driving an automobile, therefore, she must have paid a lot for it.
 
Joe Sestak said:
Again, you're posting that she spent money without any idea whether she did or not.

Have you read her comments? She sounds like a brave and determined individual to me. Hasn't blamed anyone or tried to exculpate anyone.

That said, she could have spent some money, but none of you knows, so why are you condemning her as if she's to blame for her situation?
Click to expand...

First you chastise me for comments I cannot prove, concerning what she spent.

Then you chastise me for comments about causes of a heart attacks that are not the most common.



It is most common that people spend significant money winning pageants.

I am basing my comments on what typically happens when someone enters numerous pageants. You are hoping she is the exception, so that this looks like a "gotcha" moment for those of us who oppose ObamaCare.

Sorry, unless you have any evidence that she spent very little of her own money, my comments still work.
 
Joe Sestak said:
Non sequitur.

Try this.

I know some people who paid large sums for an automobile.

This woman was driving an automobile, therefore, she must have paid a lot for it.
Click to expand...

No, that is not it.

This situation would be much more like:


I know people who paid large sums of money for a Rolls Royce.

But you don't know exactly what she spent, so its possible that she paid nothing for it. You don't know.
 
Joe Sestak said:
Non sequitur.

Try this.

I know some people who paid large sums for an automobile.

This woman was driving an automobile, therefore, she must have paid a lot for it.
Click to expand...

Sorry, it's not a non sequitur. Your analogy fails as well. Several people have weighed in on this, they know pageant contestants spend inordinate amounts of money to compete in the pageants, they aren't stupid. I know first hand, and I shared what I know, about pageant contestants and the money spent competing on a state and national level. You have offered diddly-squat, other than your profoundly brilliant assessment that since no one has receipts to show what she spent, it can't be proven she spent much... but the thing is, if she spent anything at all, it could have gone to paying her bills instead! Unless pageant dresses just appear out of the fucking blue sky.... you have to suspend reality with this, to formulate an opinion the likes of which you've articulated.
 
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