Former Wisconsin Attorney Gen: Gov. Walker Violated Ethics, Election and Labor Laws

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So, as I understand it, in a defined benefits program, the employers pays the your wages of $10.00, say and then also pays for your health care plan and pension, right, so far?

A defined contribution is where you agree to pay me $10, but two of that is held aside to pay for benefits? Thus, the employee pays for their own benefits?

Is this correct or am I missing something?

The above is close.

for retirement plans:

An example would be for retirement...

1) Defined benefit: I will give you $10 plus a guaranteed $8 each year after you retire (provided you work for me 'x' years)

2) Defined contribution: I will give you $10. If you take a portion of that $10 ,say 10% and put it away for retirement, I will give you an additional 5%.

for Health care (all health care is a defined benefit)

defined benefit: Employer pays for 'x' % of the health care costs. The employee pays the rest out of the $10.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

WRONG...

When it comes to improving public understanding of tax policy, nothing has been more troubling than the deeply flawed coverage of the Wisconsin state employees' fight over collective bargaining.

Economic nonsense is being reported as fact in most of the news reports on the Wisconsin dispute, the product of a breakdown of skepticism among journalists multiplied by their lack of understanding of basic economic principles.

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to "contribute more" to their pension and health insurance plans.

Accepting Gov. Walker' s assertions as fact, and failing to check, created the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not.

Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin' s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

How can that be? Because the "contributions" consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.

Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply "contribute more" to Wisconsin' s retirement system (or as the argument goes, "pay their fair share" of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin' s private sector who still have pensions and health insurance). They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.

The labor agreements show that the pension plan money is part of the total negotiated compensation. The key phrase, in those agreements I read (emphasis added), is: "The Employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee." This shows that this is just divvying up the total compensation package, so much for cash wages, so much for paid vacations, so much for retirement, etc.

The collective bargaining agreements for prosecutors, cops and scientists are all on-line.

Reporters should sit down, get a cup of coffee and read them. And then they could take what they learn, and what the state website says about fringe benefits, to Gov. Walker and challenge his assumptions.

And they should point out the very first words the state has posted at a web page on careers as a state employee (emphasis added):

The fringe benefits offered to State of Wisconsin employees are significant, and are a valuable part of an individual's compensation package.

More

already debunked that incredible piece of spin.

 

[Bfgrn]

already debunked that incredible piece of spin.

Excuse me if I take the word of David Cay Johnston over right wing hacks like you...

David Cay Johnston is a Tax Analysts' columnist. The Washington Monthly calls him "one of the country's most important journalists" and the Portland Oregonian says his work is the equal of Ida Tarbell, Upton Sinclair and Lincoln Steffens. At The New York Times, Johnston received a 2001 Pulitzer Prize for exposing tax loopholes and inequities. He now teaches the tax, property and regulatory law of the ancient world at Syracuse University College of Law and Whitman School of Management. He is the author of two bestsellers on taxes, Perfectly Legal and Free Lunch. His next book, The Fine Print, will be published in 2011.

 

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Excuse me if I take the word of David Cay Johnston over right wing hacks like you...

David Cay Johnston is a Tax Analysts' columnist. The Washington Monthly calls him "one of the country's most important journalists" and the Portland Oregonian says his work is the equal of Ida Tarbell, Upton Sinclair and Lincoln Steffens. At The New York Times, Johnston received a 2001 Pulitzer Prize for exposing tax loopholes and inequities. He now teaches the tax, property and regulatory law of the ancient world at Syracuse University College of Law and Whitman School of Management. He is the author of two bestsellers on taxes, Perfectly Legal and Free Lunch. His next book, The Fine Print, will be published in 2011.

lmao... It won't change the fact that he is wrong and absolutely spinning the crap out of this.

 

[Bfgrn]

lmao... It won't change the fact that he is wrong and absolutely spinning the crap out of this.

I'm sorry, you have lost all credibility with me. Your partisan defense of a scum bag like Walker who blatantly LIED to the people of Wisconsin tells me you are a MORON...

 

[Bfgrn]

Why is it that idiots like you always try and associate everything with Nazi's?

To equate this to Nazi's is an insult to everyone that suffered at the hands of the Nazi's. It is a tired tactic of the left.

They are NOT doing their duty. Nothing would ever get done in this country if the minority party simply ran away and hid every time a bill came up for vote that they knew wouldn't go their way.

Also... the reason Walker is not backing off is because he is well aware that the state needs long term reform. If he simply implements the concessions and then the Dems retake control and simply give their union buddies everything back, then nothing has been done to solve the long term fiscal problems the state faces.

Also... he is NOT decertifying the union. The union would still exist to negotiate wages. It simply would not be negotiating the benefits any more.



So, once again you are going to ignore the following????

1) The $60m per year in lost revenue due to MN rescinding the reciprocity agreement is not included in that so called surplus.

2) neither is the $200m that the WI Supreme Court ordered to be paid back out of the General fund. You see the Dems previously took funds from another soruce and dumped it into the general fund.

3) The current number also does not include the projected shortfall of $3B plus over the next two years.


[quoet]Then the Mayor and the Chief of Police chief of Madison are 'projecting'...

Tens of thousands of people have demonstrated at the Capitol over the past 11 days, during which Madison police made no arrests.

Mayor Dave Cieslewicz: "Someone in his inner circle raised seriously the possibility of hiring people to come in and apparently create violence in my city, I find it appalling, and I want to know who that was."

Police Chief Noble Wray also said he wanted an explanation from the governor, saying he found it "very unsettling and troubling that anyone would consider creating safety risks for our citizens and law enforcement officers"

Yes... they most certainly are projecting. Amazing that the two Dems would do that.... shocking I tell you... shocking.

You know freak, it is people like you who literally make me sick. The word Nazi seems too mild. The right is so devoid of any morals or human qualities that I honestly wonder if they were raised by wolves. We have problems in this country, but NONE of them can be attributed to people like schoolteachers, fireman, nurses or snowplow drivers. But they are being scapegoated by Republican scum bag corporate ass lickers like Walker. We need major tax reform. Take on the same urgency we had when we entered WWII...raise the taxes to 94% on any income over 1 million dollars. If the entitled elite don't like it, they can go live in the squalor their outsourced jobs support.

 

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You know freak, it is people like you who literally make me sick. The word Nazi seems too mild. The right is so devoid of any morals or human qualities that I honestly wonder if they were raised by wolves. We have problems in this country, but NONE of them can be attributed to people like schoolteachers, fireman, nurses or snowplow drivers. But they are being scapegoated by Republican scum bag corporate ass lickers like Walker. We need major tax reform. Take on the same urgency we had when we entered WWII...raise the taxes to 94% on any income over 1 million dollars. If the entitled elite don't like it, they can go live in the squalor their outsourced jobs support.

another falsehood spouted by you in this thread.

do you actually understand what is happening in wisconsin? because your posts are full of ignorant hate filled rants.

 

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You know freak, it is people like you who literally make me sick. The word Nazi seems too mild. The right is so devoid of any morals or human qualities that I honestly wonder if they were raised by wolves. We have problems in this country, but NONE of them can be attributed to people like schoolteachers, fireman, nurses or snowplow drivers. But they are being scapegoated by Republican scum bag corporate ass lickers like Walker. We need major tax reform. Take on the same urgency we had when we entered WWII...raise the taxes to 94% on any income over 1 million dollars. If the entitled elite don't like it, they can go live in the squalor their outsourced jobs support.

No... ur a NAZI
Really... ur a NAZI
NAZI NAZI NAZI NAZI

blah blah blah....

yeah... go with a 94% tax.... that will surely help

 

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I'm sorry, you have lost all credibility with me. Your partisan defense of a scum bag like Walker who blatantly LIED to the people of Wisconsin tells me you are a MORON...

LOL.... only one of us has attempted to explain what is actually happening and it isn't you. You are filled with hate and are simply spouting it off. I have explained why you are wrong. you continue to ignore it like a petulant child.... very similar to the behavior being exhibited by the Dems in WI, so I guess that shouldn't really surprise anyone.

 

[Bfgrn]

LOL.... only one of us has attempted to explain what is actually happening and it isn't you. You are filled with hate and are simply spouting it off. I have explained why you are wrong. you continue to ignore it like a petulant child.... very similar to the behavior being exhibited by the Dems in WI, so I guess that shouldn't really surprise anyone.

I know exactly what's going on freak...it is class warfare being waged by Republican puppets and their corporate puppet masters.

The fabric of a civil society resides in the citizens who are givers, not takers. NO ONE decides to become a schoolteacher, a nurse or an EMT for personal gain or to get rich monetarily.

Republicans have decided the only way to place the final nail in the coffin of the New Deal and what made America the envy of the world, a robust middle class, and to recreated the plutocracy and aristocracy of the Gilded Age that preceded it, is to demonize the givers and hail the takers.

The LEAST patriotic takers in America today are the mega corporations. They have sold out America and her people for personal gain. They have been able to internalize their profits and externalize their workforce and their costs, through years of buying government.

Governor Walker has shown his hand, this is not about fiscal responsibility. The givers he is targeting are willing to give. They will comply with all his monetary demands. But that is not extracting enough for Walker and his corporate masters...he must extract every shred of self determination and dignity.

So I say to you and all the authoritarian followers and worshipers of the despot Walkers of the world...it will not stop with schoolteachers, nurses, EMT's, snowplow drivers or unions...

We are witnessing what the Nazis did in Germany, we just don't know yet what group of citizens will be the ultimate scapegoat...but we already know the freaks who will eagerly volunteer to do their 'duty'...light the furnaces.

 

[Schadenfreude]

That is truly a piece of work.

All benefits, for both the private sector and the public sector are a form of deferred comp (pensions/401k's/403b's) or current comp (in a non-cash form) as is the case for health care.

But there is a difference between a defined contribution plan and a defined BENEFIT plan. Try and learn it.

They contribute very little of their CURRENT salary to the plans. THAT is what people are pissed about.

It is the TAX PAYER that pays for their health care plans. It is the tax payer that is essentially guaranteeing the teachers pensions. It is the tax payer that is fed up.

That said... that was a great attempt at spin by the author.

the real problem is that too many government pension funds are under funded, that and the fact that the economy tanked

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I'm sorry, you have lost all credibility with me. Your partisan defense of a scum bag like Walker who blatantly LIED to the people of Wisconsin tells me you are a MORON...

you've seriously lost your mind. you think you have any credibility after labeling Libertarians another form of nazis?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

this idea of deferred compensation raises an interesting question.....our newly elected Republican governor has raised an interesting issue....he has on one hand proposed reducing taxes on businesses that create jobs in Michigan, he has on the other hand proposed beginning taxing pension benefits (which have previously been exempt in Michigan).....this has stimulated a great uproar among the retired.......now, if pensions are merely income deferred, isn't it logical that it be taxed as income when paid?......

I think the ramifications of this are obvious.....raising taxes has the impact of driving the taxpayers out of the state....we've already seen that with businesses moving out......I think it's a conspiracy to get Medicaid recipients to move to Florida and businesses that hire young people to move in.....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I know exactly what's going on freak...it is class warfare being waged by Republican puppets and their corporate puppet masters.

The fabric of a civil society resides in the citizens who are givers, not takers. NO ONE decides to become a schoolteacher, a nurse or an EMT for personal gain or to get rich monetarily.

This is truly comic genius. Class warfare is always initiated by the Dems. Always bitching about the people who make the most money. 'Tax the Rich' is their tried and true slogan. Nothing can stir up the masses like pointing to the wealthy and saying 'its their fault'.

It is also comical that you state the fabric of a civil society resides in the givers, not takers.

In this scenario... the givers are the tax payers. The takers are the PUBLIC UNIONS.

You continue to cower and refuse to address my question to you....

WHO is the public union bargaining against?

Private unions bargain against the corporations for a share of the profits the workers help create.

The Public Unions bargain for what? A greater share of the tax revenue of the state? higher taxes so they can have greater benefits?

Why do you continue to run away from answering these questions?

Republicans have decided the only way to place the final nail in the coffin of the New Deal and what made America the envy of the world, a robust middle class, and to recreated the plutocracy and aristocracy of the Gilded Age that preceded it, is to demonize the givers and hail the takers.

Again, you have the roles reversed in that tiny little mind of yours. You don't seem to know who the takers are.

The LEAST patriotic takers in America today are the mega corporations. They have sold out America and her people for personal gain. They have been able to internalize their profits and externalize their workforce and their costs, through years of buying government.

Again you display your ignorance. Who did the top 20 donors give the most to in 2010? The Reps or the Dems? UNIONS made up the bulk of the top ten donors.

The blame coporations game is yet another in the bag of tricks the Dems love to use to stir the masses. yet you would be pissed if you had to pay $5000k for a 48" flat screen, $1000 for a cell phone, etc...

Governor Walker has shown his hand, this is not about fiscal responsibility. The givers he is targeting are willing to give. They will comply with all his monetary demands. But that is not extracting enough for Walker and his corporate masters...he must extract every shred of self determination and dignity.

Again... you spout off the same crap and ignore the fact that I already told you why they are removing bene's from bargaining rights. But you continue to try and demonize it as if it were more than that. Because you are an emotional twit.

We are witnessing what the Nazis did in Germany, we just don't know yet what group of citizens will be the ultimate scapegoat...but we already know the freaks who will eagerly volunteer to do their 'duty'...light the furnaces.

You again, like so many of the left, insult those who felt the wrath and brutality of the nazis by comparing this to what those people went through.

You are quite pathetic.

 

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the real problem is that too many government pension funds are under funded, that and the fact that the economy tanked

yes... which I covered in a subsequent post.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

this idea of deferred compensation raises an interesting question.....our newly elected Republican governor has raised an interesting issue....he has on one hand proposed reducing taxes on businesses that create jobs in Michigan, he has on the other hand proposed beginning taxing pension benefits (which have previously been exempt in Michigan).....this has stimulated a great uproar among the retired.......now, if pensions are merely income deferred, isn't it logical that it be taxed as income when paid?......

I think the ramifications of this are obvious.....raising taxes has the impact of driving the taxpayers out of the state....we've already seen that with businesses moving out......I think it's a conspiracy to get Medicaid recipients to move to Florida and businesses that hire young people to move in.....

Yes, any money that is put aside as deferred comp that is not taxed when set aside is supposed to be taxed when it is received.

Not sure how or when Michigan decided not to tax the benefits, but it was a stupid decision.

As for the conspiracy... I wouldn't put that past a politician.

 

[Bonestorm]

I read this elsewhere and it's the most accurate description of the furor over public employee unions (and unions generally) that I have read:

A unionized public employee, a Tea Partier, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, then looks at the Tea Partier and says “Watch out for that union guy—he wants a piece of your cookie!”

Pretty much.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I read this elsewhere and it's the most accurate description of the furor over public employee unions (and unions generally) that I have read:



Pretty much.

Another mindless piece of shit from the left. Not surprised you agree with it.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I read this elsewhere and it's the most accurate description of the furor over public employee unions (and unions generally) that I have read:



Pretty much.

But do tell us.... Who is the CEO public unions are sitting with?

 

[Bfgrn]

This is truly comic genius. Class warfare is always initiated by the Dems. Always bitching about the people who make the most money. 'Tax the Rich' is their tried and true slogan. Nothing can stir up the masses like pointing to the wealthy and saying 'its their fault'.

It is also comical that you state the fabric of a civil society resides in the givers, not takers.

In this scenario... the givers are the tax payers. The takers are the PUBLIC UNIONS.

You continue to cower and refuse to address my question to you....

WHO is the public union bargaining against?

Private unions bargain against the corporations for a share of the profits the workers help create.

The Public Unions bargain for what? A greater share of the tax revenue of the state? higher taxes so they can have greater benefits?

Why do you continue to run away from answering these questions?



Again, you have the roles reversed in that tiny little mind of yours. You don't seem to know who the takers are.



Again you display your ignorance. Who did the top 20 donors give the most to in 2010? The Reps or the Dems? UNIONS made up the bulk of the top ten donors.

The blame coporations game is yet another in the bag of tricks the Dems love to use to stir the masses. yet you would be pissed if you had to pay $5000k for a 48" flat screen, $1000 for a cell phone, etc...



Again... you spout off the same crap and ignore the fact that I already told you why they are removing bene's from bargaining rights. But you continue to try and demonize it as if it were more than that. Because you are an emotional twit.




You again, like so many of the left, insult those who felt the wrath and brutality of the nazis by comparing this to what those people went through.

You are quite pathetic.

I will address your 'wet behind the ears' blather in more detail, but I have to go out and run some errands.

But here are some very basic ethics and morals issues for you to ponder with your tiny little bean counter mind:

If Walker's plan is such a good one, WHY didn't he lay this out during the campaign? If we profess an allegiance to the Constitution, our founding documents, the tenets of our founding fathers and the representative republic they created, then isn't it an ethical and moral obligation that the rhetoric and campaign promises of our candidates and the policies they create be copacetic? And when these representatives gain office, and their actions reveal that their rhetoric was merely a ruse to gain power, who among us should stand by, or allow our fellow citizens to be steamrolled and trampled?

It is ironic that you folks on the right 'preach' about our Constitution and limited government, until you gain power. THEN the Constitution is an enemy and truth is a menace. And heavy handed government over We, the People is suddenly sanctioned, cheered and defended...