Now begins the hard work in Egypt.

Jarod

Jarod

Well-known member
Contributor
I hope America's days of proping up dictators who pay us with support for our causes is over.

Lets promote a Democracy in Egypt that supports us. It will be a much more genuine result and more healthy for us and Egypt.

Who is the next of our Dictators to go....?


Saddam, Mubarak.... who is next?
 
Democracy? I thought Middle Eastern people didn't want Democracy, and couldn't handle it anyway? I thought people in that part of the world believed in totalitarian rulers, not elected leaders? When Bush talked of planting Democracy in the ME, you laughed and said he was niave to think this possible. Now, you believe we should promote and support the Bush Doctrine? When did you change your mind on this?
 
Dixie said:
Democracy? I thought Middle Eastern people didn't want Democracy, and couldn't handle it anyway? I thought people in that part of the world believed in totalitarian rulers, not elected leaders? When Bush talked of planting Democracy in the ME, you laughed and said he was niave to think this possible. Now, you believe we should promote and support the Bush Doctrine? When did you change your mind on this?
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It is different when it comes from within, instead of it being forced on a population.

The Bush Doctrine is still a failed mess, Bush didn't have anything to do with what happened in Egypt and the people of Egypt are saying as much, that it was the "people" as individuals who accomplished this rebellion. They didn't do it with an army, they did it as a people.

I commend them for their victory and now I wait to to see what this will bring them. They have very high hopes.
 
Rana said:
It is different when it comes from within, instead of it being forced on a population.

The Bush Doctrine is still a failed mess, Bush didn't have anything to do with what happened in Egypt and the people of Egypt are saying as much, that it was the "people" as individuals who accomplished this rebellion. They didn't do it with an army, they did it as a people.

I commend them for their victory and now I wait to to see what this will bring them. They have very high hopes.
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Yeah, but this all runs counter to what the left has told us about the Middle East. They can't handle Democracy, remember? They don't want Democracy, they prefer being ruled over by totalitarians. We can't force Democracy on them at the point of a bayonet... you recall all the stuff that was said, I shouldn't have to remind you. I just find it odd they are now marching in the streets demanding something they don't want and can't handle, and that we stand no chance of ever seeing in that part of the world....and wow, not a single American bayonet around!

The Bush Doctrine, quite simply, is the promotion of Democracy in the Middle East. Jarhead's own words... "Lets promote a Democracy in Egypt that supports us. It will be a much more genuine result and more healthy for us and Egypt." Are you trying to say Jarhead is a failed mess, Rana? Well... can't say I have much argument there, but this idea of promoting democracy in Egypt, is indeed the Bush Doctrine.
 
It was Iraq that we said would not be able to sustain a democratic society.

That is not the middle east encompased.

The only reason this was said is because Iraq was the only country that never wanted to be a country.

Iraq was drawn up from the left over land after colonialism.

They were a catch all of disparate groups who never sought to be together as a country.


Like usual there are those on the right who subvert what was said to try and gain politacl points.
 
evince said:
It was Iraq that we said would not be able to sustain a democratic society.

That is not the middle east encompased.

The only reason this was said is because Iraq was the only country that never wanted to be a country.

Iraq was drawn up from the left over land after colonialism.

They were a catch all of disparate groups who never sought to be together as a country.


Like usual there are those on the right who subvert what was said to try and gain politacl points.
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Actually, those are the very reasons Iraq has been a success as a democracy. Most of the other countries in the region, have strong religious and cultural ties to their form of government. Iraq is considerably 'secular' compared to the rest of the Arab world.

And I am not trying to gain political points here, I just found it fascinating how pinheads have snuggled up to the Bush Doctrine all of a sudden.
 
evince said:
It was Iraq that we said would not be able to sustain a democratic society.

That is not the middle east encompased.

The only reason this was said is because Iraq was the only country that never wanted to be a country.

Iraq was drawn up from the left over land after colonialism.

They were a catch all of disparate groups who never sought to be together as a country.


Like usual there are those on the right who subvert what was said to try and gain politacl points.
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LMAO.... wow... seriously.... go find your history teacher and just put a bullet in the back of their skull to prevent them from 'teaching' anyone else.

Iraq was not drawn up from land left over from colonialism.

Iraq, like much of the Middle East was a part of the Ottoman Empire. After World War I it was arbitrarily divided up. For your information Desh, Palestine Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and what is now Israel were all a part of the Ottoman empire.

Egypt on the other hand WAS part of the Ottoman Empire that was taken over by the British in the late 1800's.

That said.... the arbitrary drawing of the borders breaking up the Ottoman Empire most certainly didn't take into account the various religious factions nor did it account for the animosity between the groups.
 
Dixie said:
Actually, those are the very reasons Iraq has been a success as a democracy. Most of the other countries in the region, have strong religious and cultural ties to their form of government. Iraq is considerably 'secular' compared to the rest of the Arab world.

And I am not trying to gain political points here, I just found it fascinating how pinheads have snuggled up to the Bush Doctrine all of a sudden.
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Iraq was secular because Saddam forced it to be so. While 30 years of a more secular (albeit brutal) regime certainly left an impression with Iraqis, the fires are not too hard to stoke between the sects as we saw in the early phases of the Iraq war.

I would also hesitate to call Iraq a success as a democracy. It is far too early to label it success or failure.
 
Dixie said:
Yeah, but this all runs counter to what the left has told us about the Middle East. They can't handle Democracy, remember? They don't want Democracy, they prefer being ruled over by totalitarians. We can't force Democracy on them at the point of a bayonet... you recall all the stuff that was said, I shouldn't have to remind you. I just find it odd they are now marching in the streets demanding something they don't want and can't handle, and that we stand no chance of ever seeing in that part of the world....and wow, not a single American bayonet around!

The Bush Doctrine, quite simply, is the promotion of Democracy in the Middle East. Jarhead's own words... "Lets promote a Democracy in Egypt that supports us. It will be a much more genuine result and more healthy for us and Egypt." Are you trying to say Jarhead is a failed mess, Rana? Well... can't say I have much argument there, but this idea of promoting democracy in Egypt, is indeed the Bush Doctrine.
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So, upset by the recent actions in Egypt?

Then how about you show everyone where "we forced" Democracy on anyone in Egypt.

This was a totally HOMEGROWN revolution...and it had nothing to do with the "Bush doctrine".

The "Bush doctrine" FORCED Democracy on the people of Iraq...what is happening in Egypt is totally different...but then, you already knew that, didn't you?
 
The idea that the promotion of democracy abroad is the "Bush Doctrine" is hilarious. The promotion of democracy has been a guiding principle of our foreign policy since the end of the Cold War, and prior to that it was part of the basic guiding principle of containing communism.
 
ZappasGuitar said:
So, upset by the recent actions in Egypt?

Then how about you show everyone where "we forced" Democracy on anyone in Egypt.

This was a totally HOMEGROWN revolution...and it had nothing to do with the "Bush doctrine".

The "Bush doctrine" FORCED Democracy on the people of Iraq...what is happening in Egypt is totally different...but then, you already knew that, didn't you?
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No, I don't see the difference, really. The Bush Doctrine calls for the promotion of Democracy in the Middle East. The Iraqis have held free elections the past 6 years, and we didn't "force" 70% of the population to participate. Seems to me, the people were motivated to go participate in Democracy, when given the chance. Even with the threat of death from radicals who sought to overthrow democracy, they still poured out to the polls and proudly displayed the ever-familiar purple thumbs.... I don't recall seeing the American soldier with his bayonet to their backs....
 
NigelTufnel said:
The idea that the promotion of democracy abroad is the "Bush Doctrine" is hilarious. The promotion of democracy has been a guiding principle of our foreign policy since the end of the Cold War, and prior to that it was part of the basic guiding principle of containing communism.
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In a series of speeches in late 2001 and 2002, Bush expanded on his view of American foreign policy and global intervention, declaring that the United States should actively support democratic governments around the world, especially in the Middle East, as a strategy for combating the threat of terrorism, and that the United States had the right to act unilaterally in its own security interests, without the approval of international bodies such as the United Nations.[3][4][5] This represented a departure from the Cold War policies of deterrence and containment under the Truman Doctrine and post-Cold War philosophies such as the Powell Doctrine and the Clinton Doctrine.

In his 2003 State of the Union Address, Bush declared:[33]
“ Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. ”

After his second inauguration, in a January 2004 speech at National Defense University, Bush said: "The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom."

Neoconservatives and the Bush Doctrine held that the hatred for the West and United States in particular does not exist because of actions perpetrated by the United States, but rather because the countries from which terrorists emerge are in social disarray and do not experience the freedom that is an intrinsic part of democracy.[14][19] The Bush Doctrine holds that enemies of United States are using terrorism as a war of ideology against the United States. The responsibility of the United States is to protect itself and its friends by promoting democracy where the terrorists are located so as to undermine the basis for terrorist activities.[14][19]
 
Dixie said:
Democracy? I thought Middle Eastern people didn't want Democracy, and couldn't handle it anyway? I thought people in that part of the world believed in totalitarian rulers, not elected leaders? When Bush talked of planting Democracy in the ME, you laughed and said he was niave to think this possible. Now, you believe we should promote and support the Bush Doctrine? When did you change your mind on this?
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Dixie once again solidifying his status as a frontrunner for "most willfully obtuse posting of the year"....
 
Onceler said:
Dixie once again solidifying his status as a frontrunner for "most willfully obtuse posting of the year"....
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wow, you're really showing your intelligence with this post. and once again showing you're an intellectually dishonest moron because when i simply laughed at tom's thread yesterday, you said that made me look stupid, yet you can turn around and simply insult dixie, but it doesn't make you look stupid. simply more of onceler's daily attack and insult material....

thats embarrassing, you're stupid, you can't read!!!!!!!!!!!
 
i fail to see how the left can definitely claim that the bush is not in any way responsible for the spread of democracy. iraq has had democracy for a few years now, it is entirely probable that many egyptians were motivated by this. maybe family members or friends from iraq have talked with them.

i'm not saying bush is responsible, but to dismiss it out of hand is pure nonsense.

jarod:

be careful what you ask for when you want a ME "democracy"....it will not be like our democracy, think hamas....
 
Yurt said:
wow, you're really showing your intelligence with this post. and once again showing you're an intellectually dishonest moron because when i simply laughed at tom's thread yesterday, you said that made me look stupid, yet you can turn around and simply insult dixie, but it doesn't make you look stupid. simply more of onceler's daily attack and insult material....

thats embarrassing, you're stupid, you can't read!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm concerned about you; are you getting enough sleep these days?
 
Onceler said:
I'm concerned about you; are you getting enough sleep these days?
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lol...can't admit you fucked up and proved you're an intellectually dishonest hack...love it, so busted and a mere day later :)

thats embarrassing, you're stupid, you can't read!!!!!!!!!!! <----onceler everyday he posts here
 
Come on now. This was starting to be an interesting thread. No need for lovers quarrels to hijack it.
 
Yurt said:
lol...can't admit you fucked up and proved you're an intellectually dishonest hack...love it, so busted and a mere day later :)
thats embarrassing, you're stupid, you can't read!!!!!!!!!!! <----onceler everyday he posts here
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Again, you can't really read. Am I the one who is constantly propogandizing that I'm the king of serious debate on the board?

Didn't think so.

LOL. You have really become my favorite source of comedy...

:)
 
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