Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Obama was bo

Yurt said:
and if someone wants to verify obama is a natural born citizen, how do they do that?

because we citizens have zero standing to do so
Click to expand...

I dont know, but having or not having a birth certificate is not the end all be all of being a natural born citizin. I would guess that there are a million ways to establish that you are a natural born citizen.
 
christiefan915 said:
Does Obama fit into any of these categories?

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents
one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person

(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or

(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and

(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html
Click to expand...

Uhhh, unless you are really silly he fits into catagory (a).
 
christiefan915 said:
Did you even read my previous post? Where is the gap in this chronology, where she lived outside the US? Which year(s) did she live outside the US? Where do you think she lived?

1942 Ann Dunham born in Kansas
1942-1948 lived in Kansas
1948-1955 lived in Oklahoma
1955-1956 lived in Seattle
1956-1960 lived in Mercer Island
1960 lived in Honolulu
1961 Barack is born in Honolulu
Click to expand...

are you doing this intentionally or are you just dense.....it is mathematically impossible for anyone to live for five years anywhere between the age of 14 and 18......I don't care if she lived in Toledo or on the fucking moon, she didn't live anywhere for five years in a four year period....
 
Jarod said:
Who asked McCain to provide a Birth Cert? Where McCain was born has never been in question.
Click to expand...

:palm:

what is it with people like you? you want to deny that mccain's b/c was ever an issue....some dude sued and demanded his b/c in discovery and it was produced
 
Yurt said:
:palm:

what is it with people like you? you want to deny that mccain's b/c was ever an issue....some dude sued and demanded his b/c in discovery and it was produced
Click to expand...

I am not saying that there was not an issue regarding McCain... I am saying that the location of his birth was never an issue.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
are you doing this intentionally or are you just dense.....it is mathematically impossible for anyone to live for five years anywhere between the age of 14 and 18......I don't care if she lived in Toledo or on the fucking moon, she didn't live anywhere for five years in a four year period....
Click to expand...

I'm not dense, but I'm having second thoughts about you. This isn't a mathematical issue. Your point applies only IF a person [is] born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, etc.

There is no evidence that he was born outside the geographical limits of the US, no matter how much birthers wish it were so. That is the conspiracy theory that I am asking somebody to prove.
 
Damocles said:
Per the law, she must have lived at least 5 years in the US AFTER her 14th birthday. This makes it so that a person who is under the age of 19 could not possibly meet the the time requirement. If such a person did have a child outside the US, per the laws at that time, and the second parent was not a US citizen and meet those requirements, there would be no transfer of citizenship. The child would not be a US citizen in those circumstances.

Basically (I don't believe this, I personally think that Barack was born in Honolulu) if Barack actually were born in Kenya, he would not be a US citizen unless his parents naturalized him after the fact.

It wouldn't matter how many years previous she lived in the US or that she never left before the trip on which she gave birth, per the requirements of law at the time if she gave birth to Obama outside the US younger than the age of 19, and if Obama Sr. were his father, Obama would not be a "natural born citizen"...
Click to expand...

I understand all that. What I'm looking for is the smoking gun that says Ann Dunham left the US and lived in Kenya, where she gave birth to Barack. I also understand the difference between residence and domicile, and that even if she went to Kenya for six months after the February wedding and lived there until August, she was still domiciled in the US.
 
Jarod said:
Who asked McCain to provide a Birth Cert? Where McCain was born has never been in question.
Click to expand...
dude. I linked like five times to lawsuits for his BC. You have to deliberately ignore actual reality to be this thick on this. Race baiting to protect somebody isn't worth this.
 
Damocles said:
dude. I linked like five times to lawsuits for his BC. You have to deliberately ignore actual reality to be this thick on this. Race baiting to protect somebody isn't worth this.
Click to expand...


Dude, in the one lawsuit that I am aware of the plaintiff, Fred Hollander, did not dispute the place of McCain's birth and didn't sue to get a looksee at McCain's birth certificate.

What lawsuits are you talking about?
 
NigelTufnel said:
Dude, in the one lawsuit that I am aware of the plaintiff, Fred Hollander, did not dispute the place of McCain's birth and didn't sue to get a looksee at McCain's birth certificate. What lawsuits are you talking about?
Click to expand...

seriously, how many more times are you going to lie about this? i've shown you you're wrong repeatedly, yet you still maintain the lie....

Pro se Plaintiff Fred Hollander filed a civil action against Senator John McCain and the
Republican National Committee, asserting that because Senator McCain is not a naturally born
citizen, he is ineligible to be President of the United States. Plaintiff served a third-party
subpoena on the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service (“USCIS”) under Fed. R.
Civ. P. 45, demanding that USCIS produce Senator McCain’s birth and citizenship certificates.
Click to expand...

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Hollander-MotiontoQuash-4-11-08.pdf
 
NigelTufnel said:
Perhaps I should have been more precise, Hollander didn't sue because he disputed McCain's claimed place of birth. Just read the complaint.
Click to expand...

he claimed his place of birth to be outside of us jurisdiction

1Though Hollander makes this allegation in his complaint, in
his objection he states, “ince the hospital at the Coco Solo
Naval Air Station did not even exist until 1941 . . . , it is
reasonable to assume that [McCain] was born in the city of Colón
in the Republic of Panama.” Hollander has also provided a copy
of McCain’s birth certificate, which lists his place of birth as
Colón.
Click to expand...


http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Hollander-Order-7-24-08.pdf

you keep flailing about trying to make this different than obama, however, that is patently false:

2. As alleged more fully below, McCain is not a natural born citizen and therefore not
eligible to the Office of President as prescribed by Article II, Section 1 of the United States
Constitution .
Click to expand...

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/Hollander-AmendedComplaint-4-2-08.pdf

that is the identical issue raised in the lawsuits against obama
 
Damocles said:
dude. I linked like five times to lawsuits for his BC. You have to deliberately ignore actual reality to be this thick on this. Race baiting to protect somebody isn't worth this.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about race? You did, but I have not.
 
Yurt said:
he claimed his place of birth to be outside of us jurisdiction
Click to expand...

He claimed that McCain was born where McCain said he was born.


Yurt said:
you keep flailing about trying to make this different than obama, however, that is patently false
Click to expand...

It is different. With Obama, people disputed his place of birth. With McCain, his place of birth was not disputed.


Yurt said:
that is the identical issue raised in the lawsuits against obama
Click to expand...

No, it isn't. With McCain, the issue was whether a person born in Panama is a natural born citizen. For the issues to be the same, the issue in Obama's case would be whether a person born in Hawaii is a natural born citizen. That was not the issue.
 
NigelTufnel said:
He claimed that McCain was born where McCain said he was born.




It is different. With Obama, people disputed his place of birth. With McCain, his place of birth was not disputed.




No, it isn't. With McCain, the issue was whether a person born in Panama is a natural born citizen. For the issues to be the same, the issue in Obama's case would be whether a person born in Hawaii is a natural born citizen. That was not the issue.
Click to expand...

this is what i'm talking about, here, when you think you have a viable position, you debate and support it....whereas the rahm issue, you don't, yhou just ad hom and claim you would rather eat a bowl of hair than debate me....which is completely false...as here you are debating me

the legal issues are identical, you're arguing factual issues, the questions of law are the same, whether they are eligible, the individual facts do not change the overall issue
 
Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou
this will be resolved by the 2012 election, with the states that are requiring birth certificates to be produced to be on the state ballots.
Click to expand...


Damocles said:
Yes. That will either cause a release or a decision not to run. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Click to expand...

So the same states that approved Obama's credentials for the 2008 campaign are suddenly going to reject the same credentials because of a bunch of birther/oather/neocon/teabagger/Libertarian assholes can't have their way?

:palm: Unbelievable.
 
Yurt said:
this is what i'm talking about, here, when you think you have a viable position, you debate and support it....whereas the rahm issue, you don't, yhou just ad hom and claim you would rather eat a bowl of hair than debate me....which is completely false...as here you are debating me
Click to expand...

The Rahm issue isn't even a close question. The decision is so patently wrong that I'm not willing to invest any of my time looking into it.

Yurt said:
the legal issues are identical, you're arguing factual issues, the questions of law are the same, whether they are eligible, the individual facts do not change the overall issue
Click to expand...

The issues are not identical. Resolution of Obama's eligibility is a question of fact: Was Barack Obama born in Hawaii? Resolution of McCain's eligibility is a question of law: Is a person born that was indisputably born in Panama a "natural born citizen?"

This isn't difficult stuff, Yurt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top