R means Reverse

The American people need to know the truth. The American people need to see the truth.

Our democracy is the centerpiece of who we are as a nation. In a democracy, letting the people know the truth is the essence of what it means to be free.

So when you go up against the Far Right you go up against the big financial special interests like the Halliburtons of the world, the big oil companies, the big energy companies who work so hard to rip us off.
 
And they mess was created by Bush and team.

Two unpaid for wars that cost us more than just greenbacks.

Wrong desh... the problem began with the Fair lending act... it continued with the repeal of Glass Steagall... both of which occurred long before Bush became President.

No question he bears responsibility too.... but it is only a pure partisan hack that would pretend this crisis began under Bush. It did not... the bubble simply burst when Bush was in office.
 
The Rs treated the minority party like trash during their control

Where do you get this crap from? seriously... your beloved Democrats have had control ove the budget for four years ...and I dont have to keep repeating the Depression Numbers that have mounted under their leadership. You have held a Super Majority for cris sakes.
 
LOL

Wow, klaatu - you're a real economist! You think policies implemented in 2007 caused a massive crash in 2008? Man, is that a quick cycle.

What a hack. Hey, what was the debt then, anyway? Just a few mill, right?

This would be humorous if it werent for the fact that the numbers I posted are real and the new numbers 4 years after your beloved party took over along with 4 Democratic Budgets ... play out like this

GDP last quarter was 1.6 compared to 3.7 when Dems took over in 2007
Unemployment is 9.7% compared to 4.8% in the last quarter of 2007.

You wanna talk hack... ? Dumb ass
 
This would be humorous if it werent for the fact that the numbers I posted are real and the new numbers 4 years after your beloved party took over along with 4 Democratic Budgets ... play out like this

GDP last quarter was 1.6 compared to 3.7 when Dems took over in 2007
Unemployment is 9.7% compared to 4.8% in the last quarter of 2007.

You wanna talk hack... ? Dumb ass

You're pretty clueless. A lot of people (including some hacks in this particular conversation) go back to the Clinton years to talk about the seeds of the current economic crisis, which - if you are able to put 2 + 2 together - you realize was years in the making, and is the cause of the poor #'s we're seeing now.

To say that the Dems took over in 2007, and draw some sort of oversimplistic linear logic to that being the cause of the current poor economic #'s, is basically brain-dead.

Congrats.
 
You're pretty clueless. A lot of people (including some hacks in this particular conversation) go back to the Clinton years to talk about the seeds of the current economic crisis, which - if you are able to put 2 + 2 together - you realize was years in the making, and is the cause of the poor #'s we're seeing now.

To say that the Dems took over in 2007, and draw some sort of oversimplistic linear logic to that being the cause of the current poor economic #'s, is basically brain-dead.

Congrats.

I have nothing better to do today...so I will repost what I have posted in the past...

I can’t lay total blame on Obama for the mess that we are in because he isn’t the one that put that 2000 page Health Care Scam together.., that was Pelosi,Reid and their panal of so called experts. However, we must remember this, a kiss is still a kiss and as time goes by the President's signature on that bill is a big 'ol stain that’s going to follow and haunt him for the rest of his life.

How did we get here? As its been stated several times on this board... a multitude of events got us here. Many have tried to warn us but we didn’t listen. Ron Paul is the most recent voice I remember, giving us several warning signs. Bankers abusing loose regulations, Wall St. speculation, irresponsible lending, irresponsible borrowing, 2 Wars, An historic Natural disaster trend, Oil speculation. Democrats and Republicans alike were and still are responsible. When Republicans took over in 94 they acted like Conservative Republicans and together with Clinton balanced a budget. It was during this period of the Tech Boom and great prosperity that Clinton decided to push an initiative that had its heart in the right place but lacked monetary sense. In 1994 Clinton with his HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, devised the National Homeownership Strategy, a plan that called for near zero down payments and at its center piece was a goal to drastically increase Homeownership across America, regardless of income and credit history.

During the decade of The 90's, the tech boom had evolved into the 90's bubble which burst near the end of the decade. The first sign that something wasn’t right. Just as Americans nation wide felt the hard swift kick of their Homes real value coming to light in 2006-7, Over priced and worthless paper tech stocks crashed and burned by the end of the 90's. Within a 10 year period our Free Markets felt the impact of over value and irresponsible speculation within the two most dependable areas’ of financial gain; Stock Market and the Rea Estate Market. In the real world, out of control greed was digging its claws into the fabric of American Retirement Plans.

In many ways Clinton was handing off an overall economy that was a rapidly growing bubble destined to burst. To begin his first term and start the decade, G W was a victim of a shaky economy, driven by trembles of the tech bubble burst, out of control oil prices and Corporate Scandals, and within a year he was face with an unprecedented attack on his Country, And to follow was an unprecedented period of natural disasters, 2 Wars, Out of Control Wall St Speculation and in many ways poor judgment and his lack of sticking to core Conservative Principles. Had he stuck to Conservative Principles, he would have not gone as far as he did in Iraq and he would not have expanded Medicare with a Prescription program that resulted in the largest expansion of Welfare since LBJ. Under Bush we also had the largest expansion of Govt since LBJ. Clearly not Conservative Principles. Meanwhile the Real Estate Bubble Continues to grow under the stewardship of Fred, Fanny, Barney and Dodd.

It was during Bush' 2nd term when we had begun to feel the trembles of the earth quake that was to become the collapse of Real Estate and eventually our banking system. During this period, we were fighting 2 Wars and cleaning up the rubble from several natural disasters across the Country. Never before was FEMA this damn busy! All this was taking its toll on Americans, through fast rising Insurance Rates on their homes along with rising Real Estate Taxes adding to their monthly mortgage costs. China and India's economies were growing at an accelerated pace allowing for out of control speculation on Wall St, driving oil prices through the roof. This resulted in adding an additional financial burden on Americans. The burden of high oil prices were felt everywhere, food, clothes, home heating, business heating and transportation, Illegal immigration into the Country was also adding an additional burden on the Nations Health Care System. States all along the international border were and still are faced with the challenge of giving free medical care to undumented citizens, adding weight to the financial burden of our Nations Health Care System.

It was the perfect storm

By the end of Bush' second term to put it bluntly, the shit hit the fan. He was faced with the prospect of a complete financial collapse, he and his Economic Team came up with The Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as TARP or RCP,he would purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector. This was the first bail out. The second was when Obama took over .. another 800 billion dollar bailout....commonly refrfered to as Bush’s Plan Resurrected, called the Stimulus Bill. A plan filled with unscrupulous targets. Money eventually used to buy Congressional Attention for future support on what was to become the Health Care Scam and Financial Reform Act. The money went to such noble projects like replacing the windows of Federal buildings no longer in use. Expanding the IRS, because hell ...think of all the new TAX collection we are going to need in recouping all of this spending.

Obama wasn’t through yet; hell he was on roll that would make Carl Marx blush. He decided that the best bet for our Country was to get into the Automotive Business. We not only would have a fair share in our Banking Industry we would also become primary owners of what was formally known as one of the big 3. This led into designing Presidential legislation that would allow for our Country to take over any business showing signs of failure and that we deem to big to fail. OHHH THAT OBAMA IS A GRAN Ol SOCIALIST. .... !!!!

So..how did we get here? That’s pretty much it. Greed? Yes; Irresponsibility? Yes; Uncontrollable events? Yes; Ineptness in the White House? A BIG YES
 
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Lets talk about reverse

The Democrats took over Congress in Jan of 2007 .. at the time

we were in the midst of 52 straight weeks of Job Growth
GDP was between 3 and 4
Unemployment was less than 5%
Stock Market was over 12,000


Yep.. 4 years later we have really progressed ... I know...the Dems are still in the progress of draining out the swamp....

You should know about swamps, living in Florida.
 
Whew! That's a lot of words, klaatu.

So, you seem to agree that the 2007 Dem Congress is NOT responsible for the current economic #'s, then?
 
Whew! That's a lot of words, klaatu.

So, you seem to agree that the 2007 Dem Congress is NOT responsible for the current economic #'s, then?

Of course they are not fully responsible. However, they are partly responsible for the conditions we are presently in... because they have passed legislation and presented bills that I believe restrict economic growth.... and are far from being "progressive" in the truest sense of the word.

You need to understand that the post you first commented on was one where I was responding to the original poster. R means Reverse --- I was simply pointing out hard numbers that didnt exatly show progress for the Dem cause. If you believe it was a multitude of conditions over the years as I do, you then should have went after him as hard as you did with me.
 
Of course they are not fully responsible. However, they are partly responsible for the conditions we are presently in... because they have passed legislation and presented bills that I believe restrict economic growth.... and are far from being "progressive" in the truest sense of the word.

You need to understand that the post you first commented on was one where I was responding to the original poster. R means Reverse --- I was simply pointing out hard numbers that didnt exatly show progress for the Dem cause. If you believe it was a multitude of conditions over the years as I do, you then should have went after him as hard as you did with me.

Sorry; you rubbed the the wrong way when your first post referred to Republicans as "the adults."

I see the Dems record as mixed. I have problems w/ healthcare & other spending initiatives, but I'll defend the stimulus & bailouts to the end.
 
I have nothing better to do today...so I will repost what I have posted in the past...

I can’t lay total blame on Obama for the mess that we are in because he isn’t the one that put that 2000 page Health Care Scam together.., that was Pelosi,Reid and their panal of so called experts. However, we must remember this, a kiss is still a kiss and as time goes by the President's signature on that bill is a big 'ol stain that’s going to follow and haunt him for the rest of his life.

How did we get here? As its been stated several times on this board... a multitude of events got us here..........[

The rest of your post shows a lot of events were involved and they occurred over a long period of time. The point being the average citizen didn't have all the dots to connect in order to prepare themselves for what happened.

Something similar happened many years ago. About eighty years ago. Too long for but a handful of people to remember and reading about the Great Depression is like reading about war. Not quite the same thing as experiencing it first hand. However, we do have written accounts and we know it resulted in social programs being implemented.

Imagine if we didn't have welfare and unemployment today. What would those 10% unemployed be doing? There is no signature stain on the bills that resulted in unemployment and welfare becoming law.

How many unemployed and underemployed can not afford medical care today? Just as unemployment and welfare are available medical care must be available. Unless each and every citizen has access to all the information within the government individuals can not be expected to be prepared for every contingency because they don't have the information to make an informed decision.

If/when governments make decisions that greatly affect individuals the government has to be responsible to help those affected and this is one of the main reasons people are dissatisfied with governments.

It's not a case of wanting a nanny government. It's a case of holding governments responsible. They are governing. It is their job to look after our interests. How do we get justice if a government does not do their job? People can vote them out but that doesn't put food on the table or pay the mortgage. If the government is by and for the people then the people who vote in an incompetent government have to pay a price and that price is to ensure the welfare of the citizens who are adversely affected by said government.

That's why government programs are necessary. If the government makes a decision that results in you losing your job (example: outsourcing) then it is the government's responsibility to ensure you do not starve. If the government is aware a financial collapse is looming and does not inform the citizens then it is responsible to look after those who end up in poverty.

The strange thing about governments is we are their boss as far as deciding if we're going to vote for them, however, once they convince us to do so they become our boss. They are free to go against our wishes and there isn't anything we can do about it until we vote them out so there has to be some sort of "insurance policy" so that when their decisions adversely us there are resources available.

With a universal medical plan everyone would have access to medical just as they have access to unemployment and welfare. It is fine to say each individual is responsible for themselves but the reality is many decisions are made for us. People who have worked 30 years for a company and planned/lived their lives accordingly can end up unemployed at 60 years of age. It it their fault they just spent $40,000 on a new car six months ago when the company knew it was closing down but never said anything?

Government programs are insurance. Just as no one is going to collect unemployment when they're working no one is going to avail themselves to medical care when they're healthy. It has nothing to do with "nannyism".

By the length of my post it looks like I had nothing better to do either. :)

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have nothing better to do today...so I will repost what I have posted in the past...

I can’t lay total blame on Obama for the mess that we are in because he isn’t the one that put that 2000 page Health Care Scam together.., that was Pelosi,Reid and their panal of so called experts. However, we must remember this, a kiss is still a kiss and as time goes by the President's signature on that bill is a big 'ol stain that’s going to follow and haunt him for the rest of his life.

How did we get here? As its been stated several times on this board... a multitude of events got us here. Many have tried to warn us but we didn’t listen. Ron Paul is the most recent voice I remember, giving us several warning signs. Bankers abusing loose regulations, Wall St. speculation, irresponsible lending, irresponsible borrowing, 2 Wars, An historic Natural disaster trend, Oil speculation. Democrats and Republicans alike were and still are responsible. When Republicans took over in 94 they acted like Conservative Republicans and together with Clinton balanced a budget. It was during this period of the Tech Boom and great prosperity that Clinton decided to push an initiative that had its heart in the right place but lacked monetary sense. In 1994 Clinton with his HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros, devised the National Homeownership Strategy, a plan that called for near zero down payments and at its center piece was a goal to drastically increase Homeownership across America, regardless of income and credit history.

During the decade of The 90's, the tech boom had evolved into the 90's bubble which burst near the end of the decade. The first sign that something wasn’t right. Just as Americans nation wide felt the hard swift kick of their Homes real value coming to light in 2006-7, Over priced and worthless paper tech stocks crashed and burned by the end of the 90's. Within a 10 year period our Free Markets felt the impact of over value and irresponsible speculation within the two most dependable areas’ of financial gain; Stock Market and the Rea Estate Market. In the real world, out of control greed was digging its claws into the fabric of American Retirement Plans.

In many ways Clinton was handing off an overall economy that was a rapidly growing bubble destined to burst. To begin his first term and start the decade, G W was a victim of a shaky economy, driven by trembles of the tech bubble burst, out of control oil prices and Corporate Scandals, and within a year he was face with an unprecedented attack on his Country, And to follow was an unprecedented period of natural disasters, 2 Wars, Out of Control Wall St Speculation and in many ways poor judgment and his lack of sticking to core Conservative Principles. Had he stuck to Conservative Principles, he would have not gone as far as he did in Iraq and he would not have expanded Medicare with a Prescription program that resulted in the largest expansion of Welfare since LBJ. Under Bush we also had the largest expansion of Govt since LBJ. Clearly not Conservative Principles. Meanwhile the Real Estate Bubble Continues to grow under the stewardship of Fred, Fanny, Barney and Dodd.

It was during Bush' 2nd term when we had begun to feel the trembles of the earth quake that was to become the collapse of Real Estate and eventually our banking system. During this period, we were fighting 2 Wars and cleaning up the rubble from several natural disasters across the Country. Never before was FEMA this damn busy! All this was taking its toll on Americans, through fast rising Insurance Rates on their homes along with rising Real Estate Taxes adding to their monthly mortgage costs. China and India's economies were growing at an accelerated pace allowing for out of control speculation on Wall St, driving oil prices through the roof. This resulted in adding an additional financial burden on Americans. The burden of high oil prices were felt everywhere, food, clothes, home heating, business heating and transportation, Illegal immigration into the Country was also adding an additional burden on the Nations Health Care System. States all along the international border were and still are faced with the challenge of giving free medical care to undumented citizens, adding weight to the financial burden of our Nations Health Care System.

It was the perfect storm

By the end of Bush' second term to put it bluntly, the shit hit the fan. He was faced with the prospect of a complete financial collapse, he and his Economic Team came up with The Troubled Asset Relief Program, commonly referred to as TARP or RCP,he would purchase assets and equity from financial institutions to strengthen its financial sector. This was the first bail out. The second was when Obama took over .. another 800 billion dollar bailout....commonly refrfered to as Bush’s Plan Resurrected, called the Stimulus Bill. A plan filled with unscrupulous targets. Money eventually used to buy Congressional Attention for future support on what was to become the Health Care Scam and Financial Reform Act. The money went to such noble projects like replacing the windows of Federal buildings no longer in use. Expanding the IRS, because hell ...think of all the new TAX collection we are going to need in recouping all of this spending.

Obama wasn’t through yet; hell he was on roll that would make Carl Marx blush. He decided that the best bet for our Country was to get into the Automotive Business. We not only would have a fair share in our Banking Industry we would also become primary owners of what was formally known as one of the big 3. This led into designing Presidential legislation that would allow for our Country to take over any business showing signs of failure and that we deem to big to fail. OHHH THAT OBAMA IS A GRAN Ol SOCIALIST. .... !!!!

So..how did we get here? That’s pretty much it. Greed? Yes; Irresponsibility? Yes; Uncontrollable events? Yes; Ineptness in the White House? A BIG YES
 
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