BP -The disaster that never was
- Thread starter cancel2 2022
- Start date
It's not me saying that long term assessment is needed, my belligerent Thomas. It's scientists saying that.
Its unknown and unknowable at this point, what the long term chronic effects of a spill of this magnitude are going to cause. I didn't just pull that out of my ass, that what scientists are saying. I will concur that the worst case scenarios of acute damage, due to oil making landfall were avoided, reportedly because of favorable wind and climatic conditions, and aggressive response by the government. Long term chronic impacts, and long term economic damages, however at this point are largely unknowable.
I have no idea why you singled me out as a prolific doomsayer, who owes BP an apology. It's hilarious! Of anyone here, I've probably been the most analytical and fair about this. I told you, I was in the science camp, not the Obama camp or the Obama-hater camp. When someone posted a video showing a projection of oil making it up to the east coast, and swamping the east coast with oil, I explicitly said that that video was highly speculative. When I made a thread congratulating BP engineers for sealing the well, I was attacked as a BP-apologist. I'm on record saying that deep water drilling in the Gulf should continue over the long term. Nearly everything I've said has been analytical, and backed by science. I always framed this as an environmental clusterfuck of potentially catastrophic proportions. That's an entirely fair assessment. It's the largest unintentional oil spill in history, and damages are most likely going to be in the billions of dollars. I don't think that's in dispute. The long term, chronic consequences are currently unknowable, but potentially very severe.
Is there some reason you lumped me in with the doomsayer crowd who owed BP an apology? Because it's actually pretty hilarious that you stressed out about me, and supposedly expect me to apologize to poor Tony Hayward.
Okay man, I'm sorry poor tony hayward lost his job as CEO, and has to settle for a salary cut and a paltry job heading up BP's Russian division, or whatever. Sorry Tony! It's despicable what happened to you!
cancel2 2022
Canceled
No, the painters are required to take out public liability insurance. Well, as least that is the case over here.
W
WinterBorn
Guest
Having insurance is all well and good. The liability being covered is great.
But unless you are required to enforce safety rules, your point is moot.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
In the UK, we have the Health and Safety Executive. It has been accused many times of being overbearing and obsessed with rules. However, I am damn sure that Transocean would not have be allowed to get away with the defence that they were only doing what was demanded by the main contractor. That's why safety, in the North Sea, is so much better than in the Gulf of Mexico. We learnt the lessons from Piper Alpha back in the late 1980s, apparently this is something that you need to learn as well.
Explain to me why BP should have to shoulder the major blame when what they were were doing was totally sanctioned by the MMS? Indeed, on the very same day as the accident, Transocean were going to given a safety award. This has been quietly forgotten by those that prefer to ignore the facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/us/22transocean.html?_r=1&hp
Last edited:
W
WinterBorn
Guest
You want to know why? Because Transocean is not responsible for the safety progam of BP. BP has a terrible safety record all over the world. And they flat out dropped the ball on this one.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
It's not me saying that long term assessment is needed, my belligerent Thomas. It's scientists saying that.
Its unknown and unknowable at this point, what the long term chronic effects of a spill of this magnitude are going to cause. I didn't just pull that out of my ass, that what scientists are saying. I will concur that the worst case scenarios of acute damage, due to oil making landfall were avoided, reportedly because of favorable wind and climatic conditions, and aggressive response by the government. Long term chronic impacts, and long term economic damages, however at this point are largely unknowable.
I have no idea why you singled me out as a prolific doomsayer, who owes BP an apology. It's hilarious! Of anyone here, I've probably been the most analytical and fair about this. I told you, I was in the science camp, not the Obama camp or the Obama-hater camp. When someone posted a video showing a projection of oil making it up to the east coast, and swamping the east coast with oil, I explicitly said that that video was highly speculative. When I made a thread congratulating BP engineers for sealing the well, I was attacked as a BP-apologist. I'm on record saying that deep water drilling in the Gulf should continue over the long term. Nearly everything I've said has been analytical, and backed by science. I always framed this as an environmental clusterfuck of potentially catastrophic proportions. That's an entirely fair assessment. It's the largest unintentional oil spill in history, and damages are most likely going to be in the billions of dollars. I don't think that's in dispute. The long term, chronic consequences are currently unknowable, but potentially very severe.
Is there some reason you lumped me in with the doomsayer crowd who owed BP an apology? Because it's actually pretty hilarious that you stressed out about me, and supposedly expect me to apologize to poor Tony Hayward.
Okay man, I'm sorry poor tony hayward lost his job as CEO, and has to settle for a salary cut and a paltry job heading up BP's Russian division, or whatever. Sorry Tony! It's despicable what happened to you!
Tom has an allergic reation to ANY criticism of England from Americans...which is why he is stubbornly holding onto the laughable position of his opening article (see? It's all better now!).
Congrats for logically and factually deflating all that "Rule Britannia" BS.
the hilarious thing is that no one, except Topspin, to my knowledge ever harshed on england or the UK. It was all about BP - a corporation. And I'm pretty sure Topspin is just fucking around for fun.
I had no idea some of our friendly brit neighbors were so sensitive about their patriotic loyalty - some might say Stolkholm syndrome - to some profit-making capitalist venture. Sensitive little dudes, eh? Good christ, who the f prostrates themselves on bended knee to a corporation? For fucks sake, american liberals can harsh on halliburton, or other american corporate goons on a routine basis. This faux ultra-british nationalism is wacky - and yet somehow, strangely hilarious!
Last edited:
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Why rule Britannia, when you could rule this, instead?
cancel2 2022
Canceled
That is just arrant bullshit, if that defence was used in the UK then Transocean would have been in serious trouble. You might want to ask yourself why Transocean's HQ is in Switzerland? By the way, BP use Transocean rigs all over the world so how can you point the finger at BP but just let Transocean off the hook?
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/05/transocean-needs-boot-too
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/us/22transocean.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/08/business/global/08ocean.html?hp
Topspin
Verified User
Tom you are really retarded. Transocean is the Hammer BP demanded they wield it wildly. If you think the 20 billion clains and 10 billion clean up is all your gonna pay you are sadly mistake.300 lawsuites BP sheepishly was trying to devert to Houston, was laughed at by a federal Judge. BP will face Louisiana Juries in all 300 cases. I'd sell if I were you. You Brits should take much better care of your old blue haired widowers.
W
WinterBorn
Guest
You are wanting to use british law in a case that is not under the jurisdiction of Britain.
By Wambesi tribal law, BP owes Transocean 4 cows. Under chinese law, the CEOs of both companies will be executed. But since neither of those entities has jurisdiction, it doesn't matter any more than your claims about BP not being liable and Transocean being at fault.
The contract between Transocean and BP clearly states that BP is responsible for damages caused by blowouts or other subseas accidents. BP signed the contract and accepted both the responsibility and the liability.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
And you are a cunt, so I won't be talking to you again.
charver
You lookin' at my pint?
I have no idea about the ins and outs of BP's sub-contracting contract.
However, i am most interested in campaigning for the adoption of this bovine based penalty system, which you allude to, at the earliest opportunity.
I think your theory that the media focus on BP is a nefarious scheme to attack Britian is highly misplaced, and perhaps being manipulated the the tabloid british press. Rupert Murdoch's London tabloids may be selling sensationalism based on a false premise of american "attacks" on british pride and dignity, but I can tell you from first hand experience, I've never heard anyone in real life here attacking the people or the nation of the UK over this spill. I wouldn't get too stressed out about what one or two anonymous message boarders might say.
If you can explain to me why there was no widespread outrage or media coverage of BP during the Exxon Valdez spill, I might find your pleas for people to be meaner to Transocean to be more plausible. As the lead operating partner for the Alaskan valdez consourtiom, and responsible party for spill containment, BPs hands were all over the Valdez spill. And yet BP received virtually no criticism from americans or the media in that debacle.
As per usual, I see a lot of conjecture, guessing, and theorizing. But, this is going to be played out in the courts. Presumably, Transocean should be held accountable, to the extent possible, under american law. This is going to take years to play out bro. The courts don't move at the speed of light. Making proclamations in August 2010 that TransOcean got off the hook just doesn't cut it.
Last edited:
W
WinterBorn
Guest
I'd be willing to bet that a significant number of people have no clue what "BP" stands for.
Outstanding.
Concur, outside the world of British tabloids, cable TV, and american message boards, I seriously doubt most americans even realize - or care - that BP is nominally a "british" company.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
You still don't get it do you? BP is an enormously important company as far as the British economy is concerned. That you don't understand that is not really surprising. What we see over here is the typical reaction to overseas matters, you just don't give a shit, but when a few pelicans get oiled up and the hookers can't get some tricks in New Orleans then that is truly earth shattering news. Last year this board was full of people begging Obama to allow driling everywhere and anywhere, I don't remember any of them worrying much about oil spills then. The harsh reality, which few on here are prepared to address, is that if you want to reduce dependence on foreign oil then you will have to allow more deepwater drilling and a vast expansion in nuclear power stations.
I have absolutely no problem with BP paying its share of the cleanup but all we have seen over the last few months is the other companies involved diving for cover. I might remind you that there hasn't even been a fucking inquiry yet, so what happened to due process? I can't even begin to imagine what would have happened if Piper Alpha has occurred in the Gulf, it would have treated like another 9/11.
Oh and by the way, I just bought £500 worth of shares in BP.
Last edited:
I'd stop getting all panicky and sweaty-palmed if I were you.
Nobody in Washington, London, Berlin, or Paris are going to let BP collapse, or fine them into extinction. That's not the way the world works. The leaders in all our governments go to great pains to make sure the corporate multinationals are well protected, even if they get a public spanking once in a blue moon. That's just how the world works, bro.
Your british tabloids have got you in a panic, and I can see from a business perspective how its in their best interest to manipulate you. It probably sells and is good for profits.