Because all humans are made in the image of God…

IBDaMann said:
The zero first-hand accounts give greater weight to Jesus being an urban legend, if you want to go there. I fail to see why faith in Jesus is somehow insufficient.
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cypress missed the true value of religion.

he focuses strictly on the schismatic utterances on miracles, so parishioners suspend their disbelief from the very beginning, making all following interactions cult-like and power imbalanced.


:truestory:
 
Cypress said:
Nope, that's not what you said. You are just backtracking and trying to modify what you wrote. You said you could only demonstrate historicity by the first hand testimony of eyewitness.


By your standards, for all you know Alexander the Great could have been a legendary figure, like King Arthur or Achilles. Someone whose history is totally warped by myth and legend.
There are no eyewitness, first-hand accounts of Alexander the Great. The oldest surviving account we have of Alexander was written four hundred years after he died. That is a lot of time for legend and myth to evolve.

You only hold Christian authors to a standard you hold no one else.

This is a tell sign that you just don't want anything in the New Testament to be true for emotional reasons.
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The difference is that there is archaeological evidence of Alexander. Coins as well.

But is the contention that Jesus didn’t exist? Or is it that he was a deity? There’s a difference.
 
Cypress said:
Nope, that's not what you said. You are just backtracking and trying to modify what you wrote. You said you could only demonstrate historicity by the first hand testimony of eyewitness.


By your standards, for all you know Alexander the Great could have been a legendary figure, like King Arthur or Achilles. Someone whose history is totally warped by myth and legend.
There are no eyewitness, first-hand accounts of Alexander the Great. The oldest surviving account we have of Alexander was written four hundred years after he died. That is a lot of time for legend and myth to evolve.

You only hold Christian authors to a standard you hold no one else.

This is a tell sign that you just don't want anything in the New Testament to be true for emotional reasons.
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it's you who consistently Denies the overwhelming primacy of the golden rule in jesus's actual teachings.

it is the whole of the law.
 
FastLane said:
Adaptation is a thing but evolving into an entirely different animal is not a thing. At some point one family of animals has to become another family of animals . We have thousands of animal families why isn't the process still happening? The lottery is in the probability in the billion. Evolution of even simple organisms is in the range of trillions of trillions of trillions.
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Scientists have observed the evolution of reproductively-isolated separate species in both field and laboratory conditions.

We don't live long enough to watch in real time tetrapods evolve from fish, or to watch planets evolve from stellar nebula.

The existence of transitional fossils are sufficient evidence to demonstrate there are transitional species exhibiting intermediate morphological traits shared between two different genuses of animals.

Australopithecus is sufficient evidence to demonstrate there are species with transitional morphological features intermediate between our Homo genus and older extinct ape-like primate ancestor species.
 
IBDaMann said:
... which, of course, was constructed during Thomas Jefferson's lifetime, yes? Thomas Jefferson himself picked the stone for the monument.
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The Jefferson memorial was built in the 20th century by people who were not eyewitnesses to Thomas Jefferson.

Typically only Kings and Emperors are important enough to have coins and monuments in the archeological record.

According to your worldview, we would have to completely abandon the study of ancient history for all historical figures who didn't have coins or monuments, and didn't have a biography written by a firsthand eyewitness.
 
domer76 said:
The difference is that there is archaeological evidence of Alexander. Coins as well.

But is the contention that Jesus didn’t exist? Or is it that he was a deity? There’s a difference.
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IBDumbass was questioning whether the historical person Jesus of Nazareth even existed.

Outside of Kings and Emperors most historical figures don't have coins or leave and archeological record. There are coins and statues of pagan gods and mythological figures, so coins and archaeology by themselves do not prove historicity without the support of documentary sources.

According to IBDumbass' worldview, the documentary evidence for Alexander the Great is unacceptable because it is not written by an eyewitness and the earliest accounts don't come until four centuries after Alexander's death.
 
Cypress said:
IBDumbass was questioning whether the historical person Jesus of Nazareth even existed.

Outside of Kings and Emperors most historical figures don't have coins or leave and archeological record. There are coins and statues of pagan gods and mythological figures, so coins and archaeology by themselves do not prove historicity without the support of documentary sources.

According to IBDumbass' worldview, the documentary evidence for Alexander the Great is unacceptable because it is not written by an eyewitness and the earliest accounts don't come until four centuries after Alexander's death.
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OK

That fucking moron is on my ignore list, so I don’t see his bullshit.
 
IBDaMann said:
I get it. We just can't call it a first-hand account of Jesus. That's the entirety of the point. Cypress is obsessed with the historicity of Jesus, but instead of providing his evidence for why people should believe that Jesus was a real person, he won't budge from using the "historicity" term, and that calls for a list of criterea that he cannot meet. You can try to convince him that belief is sufficient, but he won't hear of it; Cypress is fixated on "historicity."
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There are multiple first hand accounts of Jesus in the Bible.
Cypress said:
Scientists have observed the evolution of reproductively-isolated separate species in both field and laboratory conditions.

We don't live long enough to watch in real time tetrapods evolve from fish, or to watch planets evolve from stellar nebula.

The existence of transitional fossils are sufficient evidence to demonstrate there are transitional species exhibiting intermediate morphological traits shared between two different genuses of animals.

Australopithecus is sufficient evidence to demonstrate there are species with transitional morphological features intermediate between our Homo genus and older extinct ape-like primate ancestor species.
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We have billions and billions and billions of living organisms and we have had scientific observations for over a 100 years cut you can't show me a single organism that has changed from one family of animals to another family of animals. Random selection does not improve things. Think about a garden. If it isn't tender it randomly produces less and less. Name a random substitution of our genes that does not lead to disease.
 
FastLane said:
You calling anyone a fucking moron is hysterical. :rofl2:
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Tell us about your “humans came from monkeys” bullshit again, Festus. That kind of ignorance never gets old!

And there are ZERO firsthand accounts of Jesus. Your stupidity is legendary on this forum.
 
FastLane said:
There are multiple first hand accounts of Jesus in the Bible.

We have billions and billions and billions of living organisms and we have had scientific observations for over a 100 years cut you can't show me a single organism that has changed from one family of animals to another family of animals. Random selection does not improve things. Think about a garden. If it isn't tender it randomly produces less and less. Name a random substitution of our genes that does not lead to disease.
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You've never seen a mountain range rise up from the plain, you've never seen a fully formed star be created from a nebular cloud, you never saw the Big Bang, you never saw North America split off from Europe by plate tectonic forces.

But in general you accept the scientific explanation of these things based on our understanding of geological and astronomical evidence.

The only reason you refuse to accept descent with modification by natural selection and genetic mutation is because you just have an emotional agenda to not want to believe it.
 
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