Judge blocks parts of Arizona immigration law

[El Toro Bravo]

The question of papers arises from the most prominent of the new crimes in SB 1070, called willful failure to complete or carry an alien registration document.

It's a misdemeanor modeled on a rarely enforced 1940 federal statute. But SB 1070 says that anyone in the country legally cannot be convicted of this crime.

Paradoxically, therefore, legal residents are not required to carry their documents.

 

[WinterBorn]

and what about Italian immigrants in Arizona? What about Chinese immigrants in AZ? or German Immigrants? or British Immigrants?

Is there any evidence that italians, chinese, german or british citizens are immigrating illegally into AZ?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

The racial profiling may not be good, but it is also not inaccurate. The law would be racist if it singled out a race for reasons other than accurate ones.

The illegal immigration problem in AZ does not involve canadians, blacks or orientals. It involves almost exclusively hispanics. That is not racism.

It is if your specifically targeting hispanics. The Arizona law may not state that it is specifically targeting hispanics but we all know that by proxy it is, and thus, it is on that slippery slope of racism.

Let me ask you this. What is the percentage of Arizona citizens who are of hispanic decent? How do you think they will feel when they have to prove their citizenship status? Now put the shoe on the other foot.

 

[Damocles]

and what about Italian immigrants in Arizona? What about Chinese immigrants in AZ? or German Immigrants? or British Immigrants?

If they were contacted by the police they too could be under scrutiny.

 

[WinterBorn]

It is if your specifically targeting hispanics. The Arizona law may not state that it is specifically targeting hispanics but we all know that by proxy it is, and thus, it is on that slippery slope of racism.

If I were mugged by three men, all of whom are african-americans, am I racist for telling the police that I was mugged by 3 black men? Is it racist to put only black men in the lineup for me to view? Is it racist to have me look at only black men's mugshots?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Is there any evidence that italians, chinese, german or british citizens are immigrating illegally into AZ?

That's not the point and it's irrelevent anyways. Please explain to me what problem this law in Arizona fixes? It appears to me that it's not soving problems but creating them.

 

[Damocles]

That's not the point and it's irrelevent anyways. Please explain to me what problem this law in Arizona fixes? It appears to me that it's not soving problems but creating them.

I believe the problems were created by a federal government refusing to take on the responsibilities that they assigned to themselves, not by restating those responsibilities in state legislation.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

If they were contacted by the police they too could be under scrutiny.

I understand that but what do you think the odds of say a British immigrant in Arizona being asked to prove their residency status vs say an American/Arizona citizen of hispanic decent.

How would you feel knowing that because you are of hispanic decent you will be targeted to prove your citizenship while your white neighbors get a pass? Wouldn't you feel that was racist?

 

[WinterBorn]

That's not the point and it's irrelevent anyways. Please explain to me what problem this law in Arizona fixes? It appears to me that it's not soving problems but creating them.

I think the law is bullshit. I just don't think its racist and I get so pissed when I see the accusation of racism tossed around when it shouldn't be.


Racism is one of those accusations that one has to prove his innocence once it has been leveled.

 

[Damocles]

I understand that but what do you think the odds of say a British immigrant in Arizona being asked to prove their residency status vs say an American/Arizona citizen of hispanic decent.

How would you feel knowing that because you are of hispanic decent you will be targeted to prove your citizenship while your white neighbors get a pass? Wouldn't you feel that was racist?

I'd say that it would be nearly 100% for the Brit. When they heard the accent they would wonder if they were legally in the country. And if my skin was darker than white... (maybe it is, eh) I'd just carry my driver's license like I have since I've gotten it and have no fear.

If a white person is pulled over without identification, they start off under some "suspicion", per the law there is a few more steps they'd have to go before they got to checking on their status, but in reality they'd get there if it became obvious they were not here legally.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I believe the problems were created by a federal government refusing to take on the responsibilities that they assigned to themselves, not by restating those responsibilities in state legislation.

Huh? What?

 

[El Toro Bravo]

The racial profiling may not be good, but it is also not inaccurate. The law would be racist if it singled out a race for reasons other than accurate ones.

The illegal immigration problem in AZ does not involve canadians, blacks or orientals. It involves almost exclusively hispanics. That is not racism.

Yes, it is.

The new guidelines for Arizona law enforcement mandated by Gov. Brewer called “Implementation of the 2010 Arizona Immigration Laws Statutory Provisions for Peace Officers Arizona POST - June 2010” lists acceptable ways of achieving “reasonable suspicion.”

Upon reading these guidelines, you will find some customary practices of poorer Latinos, such as “driving heavily laden vehicles”, “riding in tandem” and vague criteria like “dress” and “demeanor.”

Many Latinos in Arizona fit the bill.

This document states “Officers shall not consider race or color in determining reasonable suspicion that a person is unlawfully present in the United States. If an officer does not have reasonable suspicion without reliance on race or color, then reasonable suspicion does not exist”.

Analysis of AZDPS statistics on traffic stops and vehicle searches in Arizona shows that being Hispanic means you have more than double the risk of being searched during a traffic stop, so a racial disparity exists already.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

If I were mugged by three men, all of whom are african-americans, am I racist for telling the police that I was mugged by 3 black men? Is it racist to put only black men in the lineup for me to view? Is it racist to have me look at only black men's mugshots?

No. Would it be racist to require all black men in town to stop by the police station the be interrogated and finger printed, yes it would be.

 

[WinterBorn]

No. Would it be racist to require all black men in town to stop by the police station the be interrogated and finger printed, yes it would be.

So the AZ law is requiring all hispanics to stop by the police station to be interrogated and fingerprinted?

 

[El Toro Bravo]

Maybe if you took a look at the people who wrote and sponsored SB 1070 you would understand.

Do you know who sponsored SB 1070?

Do you know his affiliations?

 

[WinterBorn]

Maybe if you took a look at the people who wrote and sponsored SB 1070 you would understand.

Do you know who sponsored SB 1070?

Do you know his affiliations?

I do not know, and it really isn't relevant.

Whether the law is actually racist or not is not dependent on who wrote it.

 

[El Toro Bravo]

So you contend that the law does not allow racial profiling that targets Hispanics?

 

[Damocles]

Huh? What?

The reality is that for several Administrations there has been a reticence to enforce immigration laws enacted by the congress. States are seeing issues, such as Arizona where a portion of the state is restricted to citizens because of dangers to them from drug traffickers who are in the US illegally, that could have been averted by simply enforcing the laws we have today.

Instead, ICE has about 6000 agents, 3000 of which work in ports, less than 1500 of which actually work on the borders... There has been no effort spared to cripple them as an agency and make it impossible to enforce the laws.

I'd prefer to see a more open policy that allowed more people to come to the US legally, however such policy should not be enacted until we have control over illegal entry in some form.

 

[Jarod]

Again, what can legally give the police "reasonable suspision" as to ones immigration status?

Can you come up with any factual senario where that will come up constitutitionally?

 

[WinterBorn]

So you contend that the law does not allow racial profiling that targets Hispanics?

Does it? Can you cite examples from the law itself?