Nation Building 101
- Thread starter QP!
- Start date
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
^^New Year, still an illiterate asshole.
QP!
Verified User
well good thing i did not say anything even remotely like that. I don't support killing anyone. I do not support Trump taking over Venezuela. I do not support Trump getting the oil. and expressed no such sentiment.
i only pointed out that the 'Plan' Trump is currently calling in Big Oil companies to discuss REQUIRES NATION BUILDING to make it reality.
When you say deeply stupid things like your post above, proving you cannot read, no one believes you.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
No, I think we are a big enough player on the world stage that we should be using foreign aid to influence other nations to do stuff we would like to see done and be friendly with us. That isn't "globalism" it's a traditional foreign policy tool.
Looting another nation is what typical colonialism did. This is how European nations in the 16th to 20th centuries did around the globe. It generally jacked up and fucked the countries colonized. On the other hand, the US helping US oil companies get Venezuela back into production and then having a typical corporate-government relationship in Venezuela benefits the US, those corporations, and Venezuela.
Yes. The best outcome is there is a typical relationship built between the oil companies and governments of the US and Venezuela that benefits all.
That is a problem with S. American politics. There are lots of revolutionaries and idealistic idiots with charisma involved.
QP!
Verified User
Trump has implemented the NeoCon rule book here and not what you are saying which would look more like China's Belt and Roads way of dealing with countries, which is the way the US did in the 'Reconstruction' , post WW2 era, all thru Europe.
You need look no further than the US currently not supporting the democratically elected leadership or even supporting a new election and instead saying 'the US (Trump) will now run Venezuela' and any leadership in country will be an installed pupped they choose.
Trump is doing almost EXACTLY what was done in the Mid East for decades. because that was driven by NeoCons, and that created the Terrorist orgs to rise up against 'The Great Satan' who put in puppet leadership who raped the countries along side US big oil interests all while the US military provided the guns to keep them in power.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
I'm taking a 'Wait and see' approach more with Trump. His MO seems to be, say one thing, do another. The guy talks a shit ton of smack and hyperbole. I'm not thrilled with that, but that is how Trump operates it seems.
We'll see what he actually does in Venezuela soon enough.
Oh, and China's Belt and Road program is one of bait and switch. They come in, loan counties money and build infrastructure, and then like a shady contractor suddenly change the terms of the agreement to make the nation they negotiated with on the hook forever in payments they didn't agree to initially.
QP!
Verified User
Yes what you are pointing to is where TACO Trump term came from. We agree.
And what China has done follows the play book of America and European investment in Africa and S.America for decades prior.
Give struggling countries debt life lines that promote short term wins for Politicians but find the countries tip towards default later. Use that as leverage to get even better terms or to leverage them to support your global actions by always voting with you.
QP!
Verified User
You never said anything to discuss from the start. Just incoherent babbling in response to nothing anyone said
QP!
Verified User
Was Tucker right but not in the way he thought. Did Rubio instead just turn Trump into a NeoCon?
‐-------
Tucker Carlson Told Trump to Pick J.D. Vance or the Deep State Might Assassinate Him: Report
... “the lead-up to Mr. Trump’s selection of Mr. Vance was even more chaotic” than his selection of Mike Pence eight years ago, and was “uncertain down to the final hours, with a frantic lobbying effort until the last possible moment by anti-Vance forces, including Rupert Murdoch and his allies, with some of it playing out in public.”...
...Tucker Carlson personally beseeched the former president to pick Vance, making a wild, ominous claim about what might happen if Trump went with Rubio or Burgum instead:
...When word got back to Tucker Carlson a few weeks ago that Mr. Trump might be wavering on Mr. Vance, he intervened. Mr. Carlson, ... phoned Mr. Trump and delivered an apocalyptic warning, according to two people briefed on their conversation. He told Mr. Trump that Mr. Rubio could not be trusted—that he would work against him and would try to lead America into nuclear war....
Mr. Carlson told Mr. Trump in that June phone call that he believed that if he chose a “neocon” as his V.P.—an abbreviation for Republicans who favor using U.S. power to implant democracy abroad—then the U.S. intelligence agencies would have every incentive to assassinate Mr. Trump..
QP!
Verified User
And assume these things for this example, and do not counter with other ways things could play out, which you can pose in another post, if you want.
Assumptions:
- Trump gives Big Oil enough assurances (whatever those end up being) that Big Oil agrees
- based on that either Big Oil, or Private Investors, or the US tax payer funds this Nation Building exercise to a successful point where Venezuela now has a fully developed Fort McMurray (Canada Tar Sands) like region producing enough dirty oil that it is on the verge of profitably
- profits are not flow mostly to US big Oil interests with a much smaller part being captured by the Country and its people
At that time a new Venezuelan POTUS wins who runs a very open and transparent populist campaign based on Nationalizing Venezuelan assets for the benefit of the Venezuelan people and he promises a Country wide referendum, which is over whelming won by citizen vote directing the Nationalization.
Result:
- Venezuela begins the process of Nationalization and gets World Court rulings that they have a right to determine what happens with their country resources and that such an over whelming citizen referendum win, is the justification behind that ruling. the people of Venezuela have spoken.
- Imagine US has a POTUS, at the time, who does not want to flout World Court rulings or the norms of Countries being able to control and determine what is done with their assets and as such they refuse to fight it.
- US Big Oil are left with the only recourse, to sue Venezuela for breach of contracts and loss of assets but Venezuela argues all prior agreements were implemented under extreme duress and coercion, using Trumps own words of 'him running Venezuela and thus being on both sides of deal' and the threat of continued military force against the country.
Based on the above again World Courts rule for Venezuela, leaving Big Oil with its only recourse, which is the US tax payer guarantees to pay them out for all losses of costs and profits, which the taxpayers are forced to underwrite.
My Question:
- even if you think it would play out another way do you agree the path i paint above could be one path as to how this played out? If not, pick out which points SPECIFICALLY i say that you think CANNOT happen? (not ones you think unlikely as this is not about alternatives which do exist but then avoid addressing this hypothetical)
---------
Again if you want to paint a counter view of how it might play (i am not denying we could not create many) i will not reply to it here and will just cut and paste this to you again to see if you will reply to MY post. I would reply to your counter view in its own separate post after you reply to mine in a way that is not just changing the premise so you do not have to deal with it.
Into the Night
Verified User
Into the Night
Verified User
Go learn what 'fascism' means, Hugo. You cannot blame YOUR problem on Trump!
Into the Night
Verified User
Lie.
Into the Night
Verified User
go kill yourself