If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[ZenMode]

Thanks for confirming you care nothing about distinguishing between religion and science.

I distinguish between the two very early on. Religion is based in superstition. Science is not.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I distinguish between the two very early on. Religion is based in superstition. Science is not.

Actually, THEISM is based in superstition (or guesses)...as is ATHEISM. Neither has much of a scientific foundation...except for the theories (guesses) of what is the REALITY...none of which can be reasonably tested.

Agnosticism is the only one of the disciplines actually based in science.

 

[Into the Night]

They're built by hand, with not a single power tool?

1) You don't need power tools to build a ship.
2) How do you know Noah didn't have power tools?

That's not what the Bible says.

The Bible doesn't say anything about the matter, other than to mention the entire Earth was flooded.

Really? What's is the predators eat to stay alive?

How do you know they had to eat?

I didn't say he did. I said Noah did because, you know, animals can't live without eating.

They certainly can.

Pythons, for example, can go months without eating under current natural conditions.
Others hibernate all winter and don't eat.
Some cats have been known to go a month without food, due to poor hunting conditions.

Further, conditions on the ark were under control of God, and not normal natural conditions.

 

[Hume]

Thank you. Do you have any idea why Cypress and Margot can't seem to grasp this?

don't care

 

[Into the Night]

Asked answered

You never did. I assume you don't want to and cannot answer.

 

[ZenMode]

1) You don't need power tools to build a ship.
2) How do you know Noah didn't have power tools?

The Bible doesn't say anything about the matter, other than to mention the entire Earth was flooded.

How do you know they had to eat?

They certainly can.

Pythons, for example, can go months without eating under current natural conditions.
Others hibernate all winter and don't eat.
Some cats have been known to go a month without food, due to poor hunting conditions.

Further, conditions on the ark were under control of God, and not normal natural conditions.

"2) How do you know Noah didn't have power tools?"

Stopped reading here. Clearly you don't want to be taken seriously.

 

[Into the Night]

That wasn't what you claimed. You insinuated the Bible said the Earth was 6000 years old. Lord Kelvin's estimate of 30 million years was a radical step forward given the techniques available at the time. Radiometric dating did not exist until the 1950s. You're welcome to make the case all humans and all scientists were idiots prior to 1955.

Radiometric dating does not measure anything outside of recorded history. Anything else claimed as a 'measurement' is just a guess.

The Bible says nothing about the age of the Earth. Some guy making interpretations is still just an interpretation.

This part is correct.

The reason western civilization uniquely in the world developed the scientific method is because of monotheism. Christianity was the primary sponsor of science and scientific education for over a thousand years in the West. That's because of our particular brand of monotheism.

Science is not a 'method' or 'procedure'. Science is not religion. Science has no sponsors. Science is not a school, college, university, degree, or license.

The Christian Bible is very legalistic, and for western natural philosophers it was not a big jump to go from a rational monotheistic moral law-giver, to a rational monotheistic natural law-giver. Christianity is premised on a rational personal creator that gave design and order to the moral and physical dimensions of the universe. Epistle to the Romans explicitly states that God is revealed in nature, aka God is revealed in the order and design of the universe.

^^ That backdrop is largely why experimental science and formal logic uniquely is rooted in the west. It didn't develop anywhere else. That Christian backdrop is a milieu that just begs for people to go looking for, and expect to find rational organization and natural laws.


That's why I do not get bent out of shape about religion and science. To some extent, they go hand in hand.

Science is not religion.

 

[Into the Night]

Capitalism, representative democracy, natural philosophy and science are virtually completely unique to the West, and to some significant extent it's wrapped up with the legacy of Christian monotheism and the Protestant reformation. The rest of the world smuggled in these western innovations. You can't take a surgical scalpel and try to separate Western history and culture from it's Christian legacy.

There is no such thing as 'representative democracy'. Democracy has representatives.
Science is not unique to anywhere. It is still science.
Science is not religion.

 

[Into the Night]

The Bible is not a scientific or mathematical book.

Science it not a book. Math is not a book.

Some people believe truth and knowledge only come from scientific experiments and mathematical equations.

Science is not experiments. Math is not just equations.

In that case, they need to get to work burning existing copies of Shakespeare, Sophocles, Mark Twain - and even Disney's Lion King.

I think you will find that book burners tend to be religiously motivated.

Most people learned by ninth grade that truth and knowledge can be found in story, mythology, parable, fable, poetry, allegory. That's why they had us read Shakespeare, Twain, Jane Austen, Uncle Tom's Cabin, Catcher in the Rye in high school and college.

...and the Bible.

 

[Into the Night]

By having a geneology that literally tracks back to the alleged first man and woman on Earth,

No such genealogy exists. People are lucky to get more than four generations back figured out.

and having a decent understanding of how long humans live, the Bible is making a statement about approximately how old the Earth has existed, even without specifically giving an age. If I say "This beach house has been in the family for 3 generations", you know it hasn't been in the family for 600 years, right?

The Earth is older than Adam. The age of Earth is unknown. The lifespan of humans has varied considerably.

Irrelevant

Yes, lots of people use the God of the Gaps approach to things they can't explain.

There is no 'gap'. Buzzword fallacy. Non-sequitur fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

I distinguish between the two very early on. Religion is based in superstition. Science is not.

Go learn what 'superstition' means. You ares still having trouble with English.
You still don't even know what 'science' is.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, THEISM is based in superstition (or guesses)...

Go learn what 'superstition' means. It's amazing how many of you idiots have no idea what this word means.

as is ATHEISM.

Atheism is not a superstition.

Neither has much of a scientific foundation..

Science is not a religion. Science is completely atheistic. So is mathematics. So is logic.

.except for the theories (guesses) of what is the REALITY...none of which can be reasonably tested.

Science is not philosophy. Buzzword fallacy. Go learn what 'real' means and how it's defined.

Agnosticism is the only one of the disciplines actually based in science.

Science is not a religion. Agnostics believe in a god or gods, but can't describe it's character. An atheist simply does not care whether any god or gods exist or not. The Church of No God is a fundamentalist style religion.

 

[Into the Night]

"2) How do you know Noah didn't have power tools?"

Stopped reading here. Clearly you don't want to be taken seriously.

Argument of the Stone fallacy. Bulverism fallacy. I see you decided to 'tip your king' again, as IBDaMann would put it.

 

[gfm7175]

I distinguish between the two very early on.

You can't even define either term. How can you distinguish between things that you can't even define?

Religion is based in superstition. Science is not.

Religion is based upon initial circular arguments.
Science is based upon falsifiable theories.

 

[IBDaMann]

don't care

It would have been much easier to simply say "no".

 

[IBDaMann]

"2) How do you know Noah didn't have power tools?"

Stopped reading here. Clearly you don't want to be taken seriously.

Why? Were you feeling particularly cowardly? Had you already accepted defeat?

Do you consider this to be a power tool?

 

[ZenMode]

Why? Were you feeling particularly cowardly? Had you already accepted defeat?

Do you consider this to be a power tool?

It really doesn't matter what I believe, the whole story is ridiculous. There's no reason to focus on one ridiculous aspect as though the other 10 aren't just as impossible.

A guy builds a cruise ship by himself, with no power tools, then he magically collects all species of animals, keeps them on his cruise ship for months if not a year or more, magically keeps them fed, magically prevents them from killing each other, magically keeps the predators from eating the prey, all while they are shitting and peeing all over. Then, he releases them on land and the predators apparently wait for decades for the prey to multiple before eating them.

And Christians are like "Yep. That's what happened!"

 

[Cypress]

Radiometric dating does not measure anything outside of recorded history!!

You are getting yourself all confused and befuddled again.

You're thinking of Carbon14, which has a relatively short half life and can only date organic material back a few tens of thousands of years.

Uranium-thorium and potassium-argon decay series have long half lives, and can date geologic materials from hundreds of millions to billions of years old.

 

[Into the Night]

It really doesn't matter what I believe, the whole story is ridiculous. There's no reason to focus on one ridiculous aspect as though the other 10 aren't just as impossible.

A guy builds a cruise ship by himself, with no power tools, then he magically collects all species of animals, keeps them on his cruise ship for months if not a year or more, magically keeps them fed, magically prevents them from killing each other, magically keeps the predators from eating the prey, all while they are shitting and peeing all over. Then, he releases them on land and the predators apparently wait for decades for the prey to multiple before eating them.

And Christians are like "Yep. That's what happened!"

How do you know there were no power tools?
You don't know what happened.

 

[Into the Night]

You are getting yourself all confused and befuddled again.

Inversion fallacy.

You're thinking of Carbon14, which has a relatively short half life and can only date organic material back a few tens of thousands of years.

No. I'm thinking of radiometry in general.

Uranium-thorium and potassium-argon decay series have long half lives, and can date geologic materials from hundreds of millions to billions of years old.

Argument from randU fallacy. Assumption of scale.

The age of Earth is unknown.