Stupid Libertarians

I know you're right.

But, some of his statements misrepresent Libertarians.

Which leads to others believing Libertarians are something other than what they are.

Online messageboards have heavily exposed me to libertarian thought, and influenced my philosophy a great deal. One thing I can tell you is there is a lot of diversity of opinion among libertarian thinkers. Some are centre-left, and some are centre-right. Some vote Dim and some vote GOP, while others refuse to support either party.
 
Online messageboards have heavily exposed me to libertarian thought, and influenced my philosophy a great deal. One thing I can tell you is there is a lot of diversity of opinion among libertarian thinkers. Some are centre-left, and some are centre-right. Some vote Dim and some vote GOP, while others refuse to support either party.

Yes, I guess your right.
 
You're a plant alright.

And I'm new at the message board thing gig, so you must have had this kind conversation before. With real Libertarians who found you out quickly. That's got to be because you really stand out.

As a plant.

No, idiot. I am thinking you are another retard that ran around here claiming to be a libertarian but showing no understanding of the actual ideas. theMajority I think he called himself. You sound just like him.

Meanwhile, this plant has been here (without hiding behind multiple fake names) for ten years.
 
No, idiot. I am thinking you are another retard that ran around here claiming to be a libertarian but showing no understanding of the actual ideas. theMajority I think he called himself. You sound just like him.

Meanwhile, this plant has been here (without hiding behind multiple fake names) for ten years.

This site has been here for ten years?

I don't promote democracies.

Later.
 
The welfare issues for one.

Later. It's my bedtime.

I am as opposed to welfare programs as any libertarian. I really don't have much of a problem with a small social safety net, but we turned the safety net into a big comfy couch a long time ago. That is, it's gone well beyond protecting those in temporary emergency need and instead incents laziness by providing near total support.

But welfare is not the reason immigrants come to the US, legally or illegaly, nor is it the reason anyone overstays. That's just nonsense. In Arizona they are cracking down on them for looking for work in public places. Out in Cali, you'd go to the home depot and see dozens of Mexicans (I am sure some of them were illegal) standing around hoping to find day labor. At the same time, people who were obviously citizens sit outside the convenience and grocery stores begging for money to buy beer.

Do away with welfare tomorrow and we will still have illegal immigrants. Emergency medical care is probably being exploited more than other welfare services, but again remove the requirement and we'll still have illegal immigrants.

You should read Hayek's Road to Serfdom, because you are basically making the argument that he warned would result from socialism. That is, he argued that economic interventions would lead to limits on personal/civil liberty. Can't have immigrants coming because they might use welfare. Can't let people ride a motorcycle without a helmet, eat fatty foods or smoke because they will become a drain on government provided health care services. You are using the moral hazard created by such programs to justify limits on indivdiual freedom.
 
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I am as opposed to welfare programs as any libertarian. I really don't have much of a problem with a small social safety net, but we turned the safety net into a big comfy couch a long time ago. That is, it's gone well beyond protecting those in temporary emergency need and instead incents laziness by providing near total support.

But welfare is not the reason immigrants come to the US, legally or illegaly, nor is it the reason anyone overstays. That's just nonsense. In Arizona they are cracking down on them for looking for work in public places. Out in Cali, you'd go to the home depot and see dozens of Mexicans (I am sure some of them were illegal) standing around hoping to find day labor. At the same time, people who were obviously citizens sit outside the convenience and grocery stories begging for money to buy beer.

Do away with welfare tomorrow and we will still have illegal immigrants. Emergency medical care is probably being exploited more than other welfare services, but again remove the requirement and we'll still have illegal immigrants.

You should read Hayek's Road to Serfdom, because you are basically making the argument that he warned would result from socialism. That is, he argued that economic interventions would lead to limits on personal/civil liberty. Can't have immigrants coming because they might use welfare. Can't let people ride a motorcycle without a helmet, eat fatty foods or smoke because they will become a drain on government provided health care services. You are using the moral hazard created by such programs to justify limits on indivdiual freedom.

immigration policy is orthogonal to economic system. You're a hack.
 
immigration policy is orthogonal to economic system. You're a hack.

Yeah, and the socialist programs that create the moral hazards are the problem. I have no interest in making socialism work. If the immigrants come and expose the problems of overburdening the productive by making them responsible for the welfare of the unproductive, great! Hopefully, people will wake up to the fact that cradle to grave welfare systems create these pitfalls.

That's not to say you cannot have any welfare system. A small social safety net is probably unavoidable and may be more efficient. But even that creates danger and we should be mindful of it.

I don't see any reason why I should resent immigrants feeding at the public trough any more than a citizen. Again, you are not my brother. I feel no obligation to support anyone else simply because of their place of birth. Any empathy I feel for their problems is chosen by me. And I tend to feel a bit more empathy for some person who grew up in a shithole where they did not have the benefits of the rule of law, to allow them to grow, over some fucking little bitch who complains about how he can't get a job because he is white and the Jews are keeping him down.

The hurdles many immigrants faced in their homeland are real and all encompassing, while you have to invent monsters to excuse your failures. They seek opportunity that comes from being free, while you demand entitlements paid for by others.

Your entire world view is colored by your socialist/nationalist sense of entitlement. You believe the sweat of your immigrant ancestors gives you rights they did not enjoy, while denying new immigrants even the rights they did enjoy. You have no more or less rights than they did. They likely came to enjoy the pursuit of happiness while you demand happiness be provided to you. If they were virtuous, hard working and only sought the opportunity to be productive, then you are a disgrace to their memory.
 
Yeah, and the socialist programs that create the moral hazards are the problem. I have no interest in making socialism work. If the immigrants come and expose the problems of overburdening the productive by making them responsible for the welfare of the unproductive, great! Hopefully, people will wake up to the fact that cradle to grave welfare systems create these pitfalls.

That's not to say you cannot have any welfare system. A small social safety net is probably unavoidable and may be more efficient. But even that creates danger and we should be mindful of it.

I don't see any reason why I should resent immigrants feeding at the public trough any more than a citizen. Again, you are not my brother. I feel no obligation to support anyone else simply because of their place of birth. Any empathy I feel for their problems is chosen by me. And I tend to feel a bit more empathy for some person who grew up in a shithole where they did not have the benefits of the rule of law, to allow them to grow, over some fucking little bitch who complains about how he can't get a job because he is white and the Jews are keeping him down.

The hurdles many immigrants faced in their homeland are real and all encompassing, while you have to invent monsters to excuse your failures. They seek opportunity that comes from being free, while you demand entitlements paid for by others.

Your entire world view is colored by your socialist/nationalist sense of entitlement. You believe the sweat of your immigrant ancestors gives you rights they did not enjoy, while denying new immigrants even the rights they did enjoy. You have no more or less rights than they did. They likely came to enjoy the pursuit of happiness while you demand happiness be provided to you. If they were virtuous, hard working and only sought the opportunity to be productive, then you are a disgrace to their memory.

Like i said. You're a social engineer, trying to invalidate loyalties which conflict with your desire to destroy americans.

Citizens do have the rights to all the traditional protections of a functioning border, including labor market protections. You seek to glut the labor market and outsource jobs with your globalist zealotry. People died defending the interests of this nation, including border enforcement. You are a disgrace to the all those who died when you assert that citizenship means nothing and that corporations have the right to destroy borders through corrupt politicians and globalist cronyism. I spit in your despicable face, as you lick the shit from my rectum.:)
 
Countries have the right to change immigration policy as they see fit. A lax policy in the past doesn't mean we can't have a restrictive policy now.

In the "new normal" wallstreet has predestined for america, less growth is seen as the new norm, as even more of our supply chains heads overseas as a result of the vat tax and green legislation. Our economy will become mostly composed of service workers and the ceo's busy outsourcing and degrading everyone else. With less growth, a glut of workers only serves to degrade wages further, not facilitate growth.

Bottom line, what we did in the past does not dictate all our policies going forward. Why does that seem foreign to you. Your brain is really gone.
 
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Like i said. You're a social engineer, trying to invalidate loyalties which conflict with your desire to destroy americans.

Citizens do have the rights to all the traditional protections of a functioning border, including labor market protections. You seek to glut the labor market and outsource jobs with your globalist zealotry. People died defending the interests of this nation, including border enforcement. You are a disgrace to the all those who died when you assert that citizenship means nothing and that corporations have the right to destroy borders through corrupt politicians and globalist cronyism. I spit in your despicable face, as you lick the shit from my rectum.:)

I need some help with this ASsm.

You Said,

"People died defending the interests of this nation, including border enforcement. You are a disgrace to the all those who died when you assert that citizenship means nothing and that corporations have the right to destroy borders through corrupt politicians and globalist cronyism.aT."

You're a union guy. Aren't you?

I mean big labor.
 
Like i said. You're a social engineer, trying to invalidate loyalties which conflict with your desire to destroy americans.

Citizens do have the rights to all the traditional protections of a functioning border, including labor market protections. You seek to glut the labor market and outsource jobs with your globalist zealotry. People died defending the interests of this nation, including border enforcement. You are a disgrace to the all those who died when you assert that citizenship means nothing and that corporations have the right to destroy borders through corrupt politicians and globalist cronyism. I spit in your despicable face, as you lick the shit from my rectum.:)

People have no protections against a much better deal.

Me and my company are moving overseas because of big gov't policies that you seem to support. Regulate all you want you Marxist piece of crap. Close the borders down. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.
 
This site has been here for ten years?

I don't promote democracies.

Later.

This site has been here for about 4 years, but many of us go back at least 8 years to Politics.Com. When that site fell apart, we moved over to FullPolitics.Com in 2005, and it was an outstanding site for about two years, but by late 2006 it was falling apart due to some controversies, and Damo created this site. Some of us waited a while to move over, but by mid-2008, FP was dead and we had all migrated here.
 
People have no protections against a much better deal.
No. Corporations don't have the right to create a better deal for themselves by subverting national policy. Protectionism has long been a tool of statecraft to protect citizens from economic displacement and poverty. Nations function for all levels of society, not just corporatists assholes.
Me and my company are moving overseas because of big gov't policies that you seem to support. Regulate all you want you Marxist piece of crap. Close the borders down. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Enforcing the border is not a big government policy. Im for a lower corporate tax.

Good, leave. We will bootstrap our own new economy and blockade your worthless crap products from our shores, because of your treachery.

Americans, love them or leave them.

Buh-bye, jackass.
 
Socialism is not just anything that so happens to confer an advantage on the "employee" segment of society, like functioning borders.
 
This site has been here for about 4 years, but many of us go back at least 8 years to Politics.Com. When that site fell apart, we moved over to FullPolitics.Com in 2005, and it was an outstanding site for about two years, but by late 2006 it was falling apart due to some controversies, and Damo created this site. Some of us waited a while to move over, but by mid-2008, FP was dead and we had all migrated here.

Thx
 
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