A beginner's guide to being an atheist, by Richard Dawkins

Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, but it seems to be the most common form of "atheism" online. "I hate Christians!" LOL

Last night I was thinking about your, my and the general atheist line about morality vs. logic. Specifically eugenics, which we agree is logical albeit immoral in most human cultures. Notice how many atheists run from this discussion. They like to brag about having morals doesn't require religious beliefs yet refuse to admit where social moral standards originated. Even funnier is their running from the "logical" solution of putting people in pain, suffering or otherwise lacking quality of life out of their misery. Do they run because they agree and don't want to say or because they disagree but don't want to admit it?
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Man had moral beliefs and practices LONG before any scripture, formal religion or some grandpa deity in the sky.

As an evolutionary trait, cooperation, fairness, empathy and cohesive efforts were necessary for survival and predates religion.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed, but it seems to be the most common form of "atheism" online. "I hate Christians!" LOL

Last night I was thinking about your, my and the general atheist line about morality vs. logic. Specifically eugenics, which we agree is logical albeit immoral in most human cultures. Notice how many atheists run from this discussion. They like to brag about having morals doesn't require religious beliefs yet refuse to admit where social moral standards originated. Even funnier is their running from the "logical" solution of putting people in pain, suffering or otherwise lacking quality of life out of their misery.

Do they run because they agree and don't want to say or because they disagree but don't want to admit it?
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I just think strict physical materialism is difficult to defend from a human point of view.

From a scientific and purely rational Darwinian point of view, eugenics makes perfect sense. Even the ancient Greeks understood that state resources shouldn't be wasted on the chronically ill or disabled - unless they had earned a pension by gloriously serving Athens or Sparta in battle.

The belief that every single human life has innate value came from a religious worldview.
 
domer76 said:
Man had moral beliefs and practices LONG before any scripture, formal religion or some grandpa deity in the sky.

As an evolutionary trait, cooperation, fairness, empathy and cohesive efforts were necessary for survival and predates religion.
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Link?

Yes. They also burned witches. Do you agree that it's moral to put down a horse or other animal that is suffering? Why not a human being? A baby born defective and likely to live in pain for several years before dying?
 
Freddy Figbottom said:
I stayed in a MOtel just across the river in baton rouge.

most corrupt place you can notice in an overnight stay.

It looked seedy from the get go.

In the main lobby they had a keg and gave me a plastic cup, straight up telling me simultaneously that if the cops came to ditch the cup and walk away. Awesome.

inside was an all Mexican highway construction crew all holding such cups in hand...

the cops did eventually come.. but only for a schedule hand off of couple bucks\

the lady behind the desk asked me if I wanted a prostitute. I said yes but nobody came. not even me.

the next morning they had me sign all kinds of questionable slips,

including one saying I had been ripped off multiple times in the vending machines in the MOtel.

shakedowns at every end. i signed it. what do I care.

an around the world of every low level corruption. all holes filled.

god bless Louisiana.
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Baton Rouge is nothing compared to New Orleans. Even the postmen there are on the take.
The main post office in downtown had to be shut down years ago.
NOPD directly involved in murder and drug dealing.
The present mayor is under federal indictment (as usual).
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Link?

Yes. They also burned witches. Do you agree that it's moral to put down a horse or other animal that is suffering? Why not a human being? A baby born defective and likely to live in pain for several years before dying?
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Dude, I’m talking humans 10s and 100s of thousands of years ago. Cultural anthropologists have known about ancient social structures that existed long before the notion of your grandpa in the sky was invented. Moral social structures that were necessary for mere survival.

Your attempt, using those pathetic examples, try to deflect from the truth about human morality.
 
Perry Pud-Puller said:
Daddy! Daddy! Look at me!
audrey-nethery-one-direction.gif
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anonymoose said:
Baton Rouge is nothing compared to New Orleans. Even the postmen there are on the take.
The main post office in downtown had to be shut down years ago.
NOPD directly involved in murder and drug dealing.
The present mayor is under federal indictment (as usual).
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I have relatives in NO and they just kinda laugh at the corruption. I guess it’s just a way of life for them.
 
domer76 said:
Dude, I’m talking humans 10s and 100s of thousands of years ago. Cultural anthropologists have known about ancient social structures that existed long before the notion of your grandpa in the sky was invented. Moral social structures that were necessary for mere survival.

Your attempt, using those pathetic examples, try to deflect from the truth about human morality.
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Yes, just like chimps and gorillas....who are also atheists. :)

You're free to run from the fact that leaving a human being to suffer in pain rather than giving them a release in death is immoral.
 
domer76 said:
I have relatives in NO and they just kinda laugh at the corruption. I guess it’s just a way of life for them.
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I lived in N'awlins for a few years eons ago. It was laughably corrupt for a city but it was New Orleans so it all kind of makes sense. There's virtually nothing "normal" about life in NO.

I also had the misfortune of being one of those gotdamn yankee carpetbaggers come to take a job from a good Southerner.
 
domer76 said:
, I’m talking humans 10s and 100s of thousands of years ago. Cultural anthropologists have known about ancient social structures that existed long before the notion of your grandpa in the sky was invented. Moral social structures that were necessary for mere survival.
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Altruism and social cooperation exist in the animal world too.
It exists within kin groups, tribes, packs, herds. That is based on utility and self interest.

It doesn't extend beyond that. Animals will not bring bring food and resources to other packs; Paleolithic humans did not feel motivated to bring food to complete strangers or rival tribes.

Humans in antiquity would abandon disabled babies or kill female children because of the overall perceived benefit to the social group.

The reason the parable of the good Samaritan was so radical is because it taught assistance should be rendered and resources sacrificed outside the social group, even for rivals and complete strangers.

The Jewish prophets and the the New Testament were the world's first literature that actively insisted on a universal system of social justice and the innate value of all life.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Yes, just like chimps and gorillas....who are also atheists. :)

You're free to run from the fact that leaving a human being to suffer in pain rather than giving them a release in death is immoral.
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Leaving them to suffer is a result of religious prohibition.

Your apes and chimpanzees are atheists analogy is as absurd as your pal’s same assertion for his cat.
 
Cypress said:
Altruism and social cooperation exist in the animal world too.
It exists within kin groups, tribes, packs, herds. That is based on utility and self interest.

It doesn't extend beyond that. Animals will not bring bring food and resources to other packs; Paleolithic humans did not feel motivated to bring food to complete strangers or rival tribes.

Humans in antiquity would abandon disabled babies or kill female children because of the overall perceived benefit to the social group.

The reason the parable of the good Samaritan was so radical is because it taught assistance should be rendered and resources sacrificed outside the social group, even for rivals and complete strangers.

The Jewish prophets and the the New Testament were the world's first literature that actively insisted on a universal system of social justice and the innate value of all life.
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Wow. All of that offered without one stitch of evidence.

Are you a deacon at your church?
 
domer76 said:
I never said a word about your claim. Once again, you made it up.
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Yes, you ran from it. I'm curious why you consider it moral to let people suffer instead of humanely putting them down?

You've claimed atheists aren't bound by Christian morals and also to be logical. What is the logic in allowing a severely deformed baby, which is obviously in pain, to suffer???
 
gmark77 said:
Wow. All of that offered without one stitch of evidence!:mad:
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:lolup: ftfy.... Complains when I don't use Google, and then also complains when I do use Google to provide corroborating sources.

Who besides you needs sources to prove lion prides will not share their kill with rival prides, and that exposing babies and human sacrifice was a widely accepted practice in the ancient world?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Yes, you ran from it. I'm curious why you consider it moral to let people suffer instead of humanely putting them down?

You've claimed atheists aren't bound by Christian morals and also to be logical. What is the logic in allowing a severely deformed baby, which is obviously in pain, to suffer???
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Nope, sure didn’t. You merely are unable to follow a simple thread and have to insert your own twisted take on things that were never said.

What I DID SAY and the ONLY THING I said was that morality predates any and all religions by a hundred thousand years or more. You can argue with cultural anthropologists on that, Jethro.
 
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