A beginner's guide to being an atheist, by Richard Dawkins

[Dutch Uncle]

DADDY! DADDY! LOOK AT ME!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It always fascinates me when people think morality is something "special". It is literally just the way social networks develop and remain stable. Nothing more, nothing less. Evolutionary theory in action. Improve survival for social animals by ensuring stable social networks.

^^^
Good to see at least one atheist who sees the logic in shooting deformed babies and nuking areas of famine to end their suffering.

Atheist motto: "All morality is relative"

 

[Cypress]

Gotta have quarks and electrons and hydrogen bonding before humans and their consciousness can exist.

We have no adequate explanation for how quarks and electrons create a moral law imprinted on our conscience.

To me at least, what makes the materialist argument weak is that if all of our subjective mental experiences comes down to electrochemical reactions between electrons, there is no such thing as love freely given, or free will. They are just illusions, because we are just dancing to the tune of biochemical reactions, which are deterministic.

 

[gmark77]

We have no adequate explanation for how quarks and electrons create a moral law imprinted on our conscience.

So it MUST be GOD!

Jesus do you get your debate points direct from every evangelical nutter you can find?

 

[Cypress]

You know my take, although I wouldn't call it more than that.
The universe has to be infinite because something, even if it's a vacuum, has to exist beyond every boundary.

In an infinite universe, everything that's physically possible to exist will likely exist,
and that includes an organism with an apparent moral conscience.

I also have an admitted prejudice pertaining to the matter.
I would be miserable thinking that this universe was on purpose.
The "creator" would have to be The Supreme Villain.
I'd rather live with the "everything is random" theory.

Thanks for chiming in.

There is nothing in my everyday experience or my intuition that tells me, conscience, free will, and love freely given to others are illusions.

Whatever kicked off the process of life and evolution, I don't see any reason why it should be out to trick us.

The concept of boundaries and infinite universes is pure speculation, and there is nothing approaching a consensus about it. I have read that a universe with positive spacial curvature is not infinite, and nothing exists outside the space time of this universe, because the universe is not expanding into "something". Even a vaccum is 'something', it has three spatial dimensions, length, width, and height, and one temporal dimension at a minimum.

 

[gmark77]

There is nothing in my everyday experience or my intuition that tells me, conscience, free will, and love freely given to others are illusions.

Strawman.

Whatever kicked off the process of life and evolution, I don't see any reason why it should be out to trick us.

False conclusion drawn from strawman argument.

The concept of boundaries and infinite universes is pure speculation

Looky! Cy ALMOST understands it.

I have read watched a bunch of youtubes by various evangelicals.

ftfy.

 

[Cypress]

So it MUST be GOD!you get your debate points direct from every evangelical!
Jesus, your posts are my heroin addiction even though they make me fucking angry!

ftfy...These topics have been discussed by philosophers and philosophers of science for thousands of years.

Evangelical pastors don't know about quarks, subatomic particles, or cosmology.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

 

[domer76]

We have no adequate explanation for how quarks and electrons create a moral law imprinted on our conscience.

To me at least, what makes the materialist argument weak is that if all of our subjective mental experiences comes down to electrochemical reactions between electrons, there is no such thing as love freely given, or free will. They are just illusions, because we are just dancing to the tune of biochemical reactions, which are deterministic.

I didn’t say quarks or the such created any moral law.

At one point in their existence, humans figured out that their daily survival depended on mutual cooperation, a sense of fairness, sharing, mutual protection, and so on. They did it without religion.

And yes, before anything else, we are one big biochemical machine. Your claim that the other stuff like love and free will can’t exist in that context is your opinion and complete bullshit.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We have no adequate explanation for how quarks and electrons create a moral law imprinted on our conscience.

To me at least, what makes the materialist argument weak is that if all of our subjective mental experiences comes down to electrochemical reactions between electrons, there is no such thing as love freely given, or free will. They are just illusions, because we are just dancing to the tune of biochemical reactions, which are deterministic.

Not a determinist and I do support the idea of free will, even if it's only limited to 1% while 99% is genetics and experience like other animals. It goes back the triune of mind, body and spirit.

OTOH, I don't believe we are born noble in spirit, it has to be nurtured and grown. We are born animals with an innate desire for survival. Sometimes at any cost. Observing 2 year olds in a play room gives an indication of our animal natures. To fit into society, we need to be socially indoctrinated.

Consider a new puppy. It can be trained to dislike other people or other dogs or it can be taken to a dog park and socialized. Humans are no different.

7 common toddler behavior issues and how to handle them

Common toddler behavioral issues like screaming or biting can be tough on parents and caregivers. Here's why toddlers act out and how to respond.

www.babycenter.com

Aggressive behavior is common in toddlers, since they're exploring the world, learning how to express themselves, and figuring out how to process big feelings. Add to that their developing language skills and lack of self-control, and you have a recipe for aggressive outbursts....

 

[Cypress]

Not a determinist and I do support the idea of free will, even if it's only limited to 1% while 99% is genetics and experience like other animals. It goes back the triune of mind, body and spirit.

OTOH, I don't believe we are born noble in spirit, it has to be nurtured and grown. We are born animals with an innate desire for survival. Sometimes at any cost. Obverving 2 year olds in a play room gives an indication of our animal natures. To fit into society, we need to be socially indoctrinated.

Consider a new puppy. It can be trained to dislike other people or other dogs or it can be taken to a dog park and socialized. Humans are no different.

7 common toddler behavior issues and how to handle them

Common toddler behavioral issues like screaming or biting can be tough on parents and caregivers. Here's why toddlers act out and how to respond.

www.babycenter.com

Aggressive behavior is common in toddlers, since they're exploring the world, learning how to express themselves, and figuring out how to process big feelings. Add to that their developing language skills and lack of self-control, and you have a recipe for aggressive outbursts....

Good point.

If you left a bunch of three year olds on the Lord of the Flies island without any adult supervision, I have no doubt their moral conscience perhaps would not be as cultivated as moral responsible modern adults.

But I maintain that over time, their descendants would be on a trajectory that incrementally bent towards a universal moral law we would totally recognize.

The reason I think that is because civilizations across the planet of independently began cultivating a moral and social compass independent of strictly Darwinian requirements for self-preservation that were remarkably fairly similar.

 

[Into the Night]

ok, mass murder 'sperg.

What 'mass murder'?? No nuclear bomb has been used to kill anyone since Nagasaki.

 

[Into the Night]

most atheists refuse to admit their demoralization agenda.

Atheists don't have a demoralization agenda.

 

[gmark77]

ftfy...

Hey, Liar Boy, you waste a lot of time typing anything after ftfy. When you start by saying you lie I am unwilling to read anything else you write.

Stop lying.

Try debating.

 

[Into the Night]

Not a determinist and I do support the idea of free will, even if it's only limited to 1% while 99% is genetics and experience like other animals. It goes back the triune of mind, body and spirit.

OTOH, I don't believe we are born noble in spirit, it has to be nurtured and grown. We are born animals with an innate desire for survival. Sometimes at any cost. Observing 2 year olds in a play room gives an indication of our animal natures. To fit into society, we need to be socially indoctrinated.

Consider a new puppy. It can be trained to dislike other people or other dogs or it can be taken to a dog park and socialized. Humans are no different.

7 common toddler behavior issues and how to handle them

Common toddler behavioral issues like screaming or biting can be tough on parents and caregivers. Here's why toddlers act out and how to respond.

www.babycenter.com

Aggressive behavior is common in toddlers, since they're exploring the world, learning how to express themselves, and figuring out how to process big feelings. Add to that their developing language skills and lack of self-control, and you have a recipe for aggressive outbursts....

You condone killing people that don't agree with you, then you say you support free will??

 

[Into the Night]

Good point.

If you left a bunch of three year olds on the Lord of the Flies island without any adult supervision, I have no doubt their moral conscience perhaps would not be as cultivated as moral responsible modern adults.

But I maintain that over time, their descendants would be on a trajectory that incrementally bent towards a universal moral law we would totally recognize.

The reason I think that is because civilizations across the planet of independently began cultivating a moral and social compass independent of strictly Darwinian requirements for self-preservation that were remarkably fairly similar.

Darwin did not require self preservation.

 

[Into the Night]

LoL, I'd say maybe 20 active members.

Agree there is no question about statistics being useful to examine mathematical patterns.

Too bad you never learned statistical math.

 

[Into the Night]

yes. it lets stupid people feel it's fine to be evil.

Atheism does not council evil. They are not necessarily stupid either.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

If you left a bunch of three year olds on the Lord of the Flies island without any adult supervision, I have no doubt their moral conscience perhaps would not be as cultivated as moral responsible modern adults.

But I maintain that over time, their descendants would be on a trajectory that incrementally bent towards a universal moral law we would totally recognize.

The reason I think that is civilizations across the planet of independently began cultivating a moral and social compass independent of strictly Darwinian requirements for self-preservation that were remarkably fairly similar.

If that "universal moral law" is survival of the species, I agree. A human society needs to follow Ben Franklin's advice: “we must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” If a society doesn't "hang together", then they will be picked off individually by predators, be it lions, tigers and bears or a human society that does, indeed, hang together.

Human societies that self-destruct often don't leave many records compared to those that do.

It's evolution: survival of the fittest. Not just individuals, but societies. As some have noted in other threads, our society seems to be self-destructing. The current regime is weakening us in an effort to take over but they are also weakening us against our enemies and our competitors both politically and economically.

 

[Into the Night]

I think most atheists are not actually atheists. When you press them hard enough on their beliefs they tend to retreat into agnostic territory.

Go learn what these words mean. Go learn English.

It's very hard to defend the idea that matter and energy adequately explain life, the universe, and everything.

Matter is not an explanation.
Energy is not an explanation.
Neither is a religion.

Which is why you generally see them run awayfrom defending physical materialism.

Buzzword fallacy.