I am new but not new?

anonymoose said:
How is it a lie that Trump was elected twice?
Sounds like you’re the one doing the morning drinking.
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No one said it is a lie that Trump was elected twice.

But you were insinuating that the election of Biden was because of a "flawed election."

Put the fucking bottle down and consider what you are saying and inferring.
 
Evan Keal said:
The minute we stop believing in elections, we lose the only peaceful power we’ve got.
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You're right. (ballot box, jury box, ammo box)

That's why I support all sorts of so-called "election integrity" measures (e.g. voter ID, proof of citizenship, no mail-in or "absentee" ballots except for military/abroad (IOW, largely in-person ONLY), no drop boxes, no endless counting of votes for days after election day, etc) ... Such measures being implemented AND ENFORCED nationwide (or even in a supermajority of states) would go a long way to restore my faith in the legitimacy of elections (at least in those states).

I really WANT to believe that elections are conducted honestly, but there's just way too many gaping "holes in the bucket" at the moment for me to believe that is the case. Then there's the fact that I can't unsee the shady things that my own eyes have seen.
Evan Keal said:
If we decide every loss means “it must’ve been rigged,” then the whole foundation cracks.
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Right. It's not good to immediately scream "FRAUD" when it actually means "your preferred candidate legitimately lost". There's a big difference. Any claims of fraud need to be substantiated. There are plenty of historically documented cases of election fraud in which an election was redone (or the "loser" was declared the "winner") due to the substantiated fraud.
Evan Keal said:
The truth is, America’s had messy elections since the beginning — some dirtier than others — but we’ve always managed to move forward because people still showed up, voted, and trusted that the process, not the personalities, was worth fighting for.
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Yes, there's a long history of messy elections; it's certainly not anything new.
Evan Keal said:
You don’t have to like who wins. You don’t even have to like the system some days. But if we ever quit believing in it altogether, that’s when we really lose the country.
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I appreciate the sentiment, but I also think that it's good to "see things as they are, not as we would wish them to be".
 
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Evan Keal said:
Yeah, the reports are bad. But this isn’t the first time America’s faced ugly politics or heavy hands in power. We’ve had internment camps, segregation laws, McCarthy’s witch hunts, and more corruption than anyone cares to count. Presidents and parties both have overstepped plenty. And still, the Republic held. Elections went on. New people took the reins.

I’m not excusing a thing — just remembering the record. We’ve weathered storms before. We’ll do it again. That’s the deal we make with freedom: when it breaks, we fix it. Not with hate or violence, but with votes, voices, and conscience.
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I agree with lots of this, Evan. Except that the part I highlighted should read, "We've weathered (these kinds) of storms before, we MAY do it again."
 
domer76 said:
You referred to the “flawed” election. There wasn’t one. A right wing lie.
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Maybe he was referring to the "hanging chads" "flawed" election? A left wing lie?
Maybe he was referring to the "Russian interference" "flawed" election? A left wing lie?

Leftists LOVE to conveniently forget their own history when it comes to the claims that they make about all sorts of stuff, but especially election fraud and gerrymandering.
 
Evan Keal said:
The minute we stop believing in elections, we lose the only peaceful power we’ve got. If we decide every loss means “it must’ve been rigged,” then the whole foundation cracks. The truth is, America’s had messy elections since the beginning — some dirtier than others — but we’ve always managed to move forward because people still showed up, voted, and trusted that the process, not the personalities, was worth fighting for.

You don’t have to like who wins. You don’t even have to like the system some days. But if we ever quit believing in it altogether, that’s when we really lose the country.
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Doesn't matter what we "believe." What matters is the reality. If the system CAN be rigged...and people start doing it...we lose the Republic.

If there are armed military at polling places around our country the next two elections, we do lose the Republic.

I suspect Trump will do everything he can to insure that every polling place in America has armed military around it.
 
gfm7175 said:
A lot of people get shot every day in Chicago alone. Maybe that'll change now that Trump is doing the job that Pritzker, Johnson, and the Chicago police refuse to do. I'm sure that plenty of the residents of Chicago will appreciate Trump's efforts.
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I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people in America who would appreciate Trump's efforts...even if his effort were to shit in their faces. The cult is not referred to as MAGA morons for no good reason.

gfm7175 said:
Many leftists resort to violence without any sort of inciting. See the 2020 "Summer of Love" as an example.

... and now YOU are inciting violence...
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I guess MAGA morons have to use that kind of "reasoning."

Hey...it is great for a laugh or two.

:laugh:
 
Ross Dolan said:
The fact that it is not happening (if that is a FACT) does not mean it should not be discussed as something that could happen and probably should be guarded against happening.
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It’s fair to talk about what could happen. I just think most of the discussion around mass violence happens in online echo chambers that make it sound like the whole country’s on the brink. It’s fine to stay aware, but at some point the fear talk does more harm than good.
 
anonymoose said:
The last one was too.
Mail in voting for national elections is always flawed. (Not to be confused with absentee voting.)
Even some of the democrats here pointed that out.
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Nope. None of you conspiracy freaks have ever found anything but a tiny handful of incidental shit. Insignificant and meaningless.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Absolutely nothing.

But if Obama had done anything like it, the MAGA morons would be calling for presidential assassination too be legalized.
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Remember how many White Supremacists wanted to start a civil war with the rumor about Jade Helm 15? These people are anti-American human scum. All patriotic Americans should be ready to put them down when they become violent and seek to murder innocent Americans.

allthatsinteresting.com

How Alex Jones And Russian Bots Turned A Routine Military Exercise Into A 'Homeland Invasion'

One poll leading up to the 2016 election found that one-third of Republican primary voters believed the government was trying to take over Texas.
allthatsinteresting.com allthatsinteresting.com


www.texastribune.org

Hysteria over Jade Helm exercise in Texas was fueled by Russians, former CIA director says

Gov. Greg Abbott's decision in 2015 to ask the Texas State Guard to monitor a federal military exercise prompted significant criticism. A former CIA director said Wednesday that the move emboldened Russians to next target elections.
www.texastribune.org www.texastribune.org
 
cawacko said:
It’s fair to talk about what could happen. I just think most of the discussion around mass violence happens in online echo chambers that make it sound like the whole country’s on the brink. It’s fine to stay aware, but at some point the fear talk does more harm than good.
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I truly understand your point, CA...but look at what is happening.
 
Ross Dolan said:
Could be.

I am sure there were Germans in the mid-20th century who had lots of faith that Hitler could make Germany great again...and...I mean...what could go wrong with giving him the chance?
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They did. Many Americans marveled at the work Hitler did from 1933 until he annexed Austria and invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938. That's how Charles Lindburgh got himself into trouble.


www.nationalgeographic.com

Charles Lindbergh was a Nazi puppet—and his famous flight was overrated. Here’s why.

The aviator was so impressed by German propaganda that he grossly overestimated Hitler’s airpower.
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com
 
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Evan Keal said:
The minute we stop believing in elections, we lose the only peaceful power we’ve got.
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I'll also clarify for you that, in my personal case, I wouldn't ever become violent even if I believe that an election result was illegitimate (as I believe about 2020). Why? Because I am a Christian who believes that such authority (whether legitimately or illegitimately gained, from an Earthly sense) is ultimately "given by God".

[Jesus to Pontius Pilate] "You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above" (John 19:11).

"There is no authority except that which comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God". (Romans 13:1-2)
 
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