Ignorance and the Bible

[Ross Dolan]

If it falls out of Edwina's ass, it's obviously stupid and wrong.

Given the primitive times (e.g. scribes) and the 300 year interim between the Crucifixion and the Council of Nicaea, I have no doubt much of the NT is a written version of the game Telephone. Still, I think the essence of the message of Jesus rings through clearly. Now, if only more MAGAts would pick up on that message and start walking it, then things would be better.

Until them, the vast majority of MAGAts will be following the path of Satan and his mammon-worshiping son, the Orange Jesus.

Absolutely, Dutch.

They talk the talk...but do not know how to walk the walk.

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them. There is no reason nor sense in the kind of world Trump, Miller, Bannon, and Stone want.

I don't pray...but I fervently hope that the continuing Trump supporters come to their senses and abandon this troubled, dangerous man.

 

[Phantasmal]

Absolutely, Dutch.

They talk the talk...but do not know how to walk the walk.

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them. There is no reason nor sense in the kind of world Trump, Miller, Bannon, and Stone want.

I don't pray...but I fervently hope that the continuing Trump supporters come to their senses and abandon this troubled, dangerous man.

Amen

 

[EdwinA]

There are only 7 "undisputed" letters from Paul...and maybe 5 or 6 more that have authorship questions. I've read all of them...and I see nothing in any of them that suggests what you assert there.

I accept that I may be wrong.

Since there is so little material, could you cite that to which you refer in that remark?

I can do a lot better than that. Get a copy of this book:

Goodreads

Discover and share books you love on Goodreads.

www.goodreads.com

Your library may have it on the shelves. It gives an excellent run down of the position of Rome in the early church, as well as the provenances of most of the NT books. Rome did not rule the early church. Antioch was the major center after the Jewish establishment banned Christians from the synagogues in Jerusalem. Christians were an underground sect in Rome. It's significance was due to its being in the capital of the Empire, but it was not the center of Christian theology and did not order the other churches around. That's just absurd. Even modern Catholic scholar no longer claim it is fact, and preface such claims with 'by tradition' these days. It's a 'tradition' to Catholics only. The Edict of Milan wasn't even issued until 313 A.D.

I might cite parts from my copy, if this thread doesn't degenerate into the usual Idiot Festival and sniveling by deviants and commies.

 

[EdwinA]

Ah, on edit I see it's already too late and no need to cite anything, the Idiot Brigade has already infested the thread.

 

[EdwinA]

Absolutely, Dutch.

They talk the talk...but do not know how to walk the walk.

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them. There is no reason nor sense in the kind of world Trump, Miller, Bannon, and Stone want.

I don't pray...but I fervently hope that the continuing Trump supporters come to their senses and abandon this troubled, dangerous man.

So Douche is breast feeding you again.

 

[Truth Detector]

It is quite humorous that those who are the most ignorant on the Bible are those who profess to be Bible thumping Christians. The scholars, people who actually STUDY the Bible for a living, are mostly atheists. And they became atheists only AFTER their deep study led them to that conclusion.

If the Bible stories that defy all laws of science and nature were written today, by an author we could actually talk to about his veracity, we would label it as science fiction.

But, since it was written by several unknown authors 2000 years ago, the believers take it as fact. Delusional. Willfully ignorant. Intellectually lazy.

Dumb

Obsessed

Mendacious

Egotistical

Rude

76 IQ

 

[Phyllis Diller]

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them.

how about lying for ten years straight about nearly everything, and inciting violence and framing grandmas at the capitol?

what would Jesus do?

 

[Phyllis Diller]

please create aa general timeline of the byzantine empire and it's relationship with the western roman empire inlude relevant dates and political and religious events.
Search
Here's a timeline outlining key events in the Byzantine Empire and its relationship with the Western Roman Empire, emphasizing significant political and religious events.

285 CE	The Roman Empire is divided into the Eastern and Western Roman Empires.	Political Division
312 CE	Constantine I becomes the first Roman emperor to embrace Christianity, leading to its gradual state recognition.	Religious/Political
330 CE	Constantinople is founded on the site of Byzantium, becoming the new capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.	Political
391 CE	Emperor Theodosius I closes pagan temples, affirming Christianity as the state religion.	Religious
395 CE	Theodosius I dies, and the empire is permanently split, with Arcadius governing the East and Honorius the West.	Political Division
410

[th]

Date​

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Event​

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Category​

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[Phyllis Diller]

410 CE	Rome is sacked by Visigoths, highlighting the decline of the Western Roman Empire.	Political
451 CE	The Council of Chalcedon takes place, affirming key Christian doctrines and straining relations with Rome.	Religious
476 CE	The Western Roman Empire falls as Romulus Augustulus is deposed, marking the official end of the Western Empire.	Political
527-565 CE	Reign of Justinian I, who seeks to reclaim the Western territories, achieving temporary successes.	Political/Military
541 CE	The Plague of Justinian begins, significantly weakening the Byzantine Empire.	Social/Environmental
634-641 CE	Muslim conquests lead to the loss of Syria and Egypt, crucial provinces for the Byzantine economy.	Military
1054 CE	The Great Schism occurs, formalizing the division between Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism.	Religious
1071 CE	The Battle of Manzikert results in significant territorial losses to the Seljuk Turks.	Military
1204 CE	Constantinople is sacked during the Fourth Crusade, leading to the temporary establishment of the Latin Empire.	Political/Religious
1261 CE	Byzantine forces recapture Constantinople, marking the restoration of the Byzantine Empire.	Political
1453 CE	Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire, marking the end of Byzantine rule.	Political

Overview of Key Relationships​

Political Dynamics​

• The Byzantine Empire viewed itself as the continuation of the Roman Empire, especially after the division in 395 CE.
• Tensions grew over territory, as the Western Empire struggled with invasions and internal strife.

Religious Relations​

• Theological disputes, such as those during the reign of Justinian, often strained ties. The Great Schism in 1054 was a pivotal moment, solidifying differences.
• Both Emperors exerted influence over the Church, with the Byzantine Empire developing distinctive orthodox practices.

Military Engagements​

• Military alliances and conflicts occurred, especially as the Western Empire fell into disarray. The Byzantines sometimes provided assistance to the West against invading forces.
• The outcomes of key battles, such as Manzikert, significantly shifted power toward emerging Islamic states.

The timeline illustrates the complex interplay of political, military, and religious factors that shaped the Byzantine Empire and its relationship with the Western Roman Empire. Each event had long-lasting implications that influenced the course of both empires and their successors.

Search Results​

• 

 

[EdwinA]

please create aa general timeline of the byzantine empire and it's relationship with the western roman empire inlude relevant dates and political and religious events.
Search
Here's a timeline outlining key events in the Byzantine Empire and its relationship with the Western Roman Empire, emphasizing significant political and religious events.

285 CE	The Roman Empire is divided into the Eastern and Western Roman Empires.	Political Division
312 CE	Constantine I becomes the first Roman emperor to embrace Christianity, leading to its gradual state recognition.	Religious/Political
330 CE	Constantinople is founded on the site of Byzantium, becoming the new capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.	Political
391 CE	Emperor Theodosius I closes pagan temples, affirming Christianity as the state religion.	Religious
395 CE	Theodosius I dies, and the empire is permanently split, with Arcadius governing the East and Honorius the West.	Political Division
410

[th]
Date

[/th][th]
Event

[/th][th]
Category

[/th]​

But Ross never read anything about the history of Christianity, so it doesn't exist in Ross' tiny fever ridden brain. And Douche has apparently never read a book of any kind in hid life, so naturally they love each other.

The Christian Church was founded in the Upper Room of the Temple in Jerusalem. It's first bishop was James, not some Roman bishop. They preached from Jewish synagogues early on. But let's not bother Ross with facts.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

but back to our pet discussion.

it could have have been that the westerns created "mohammedism" to splinter eastern empire unity?

this is political shit, having nothing really to do with religion.

 

[Phyllis Diller]

dark age realpolitik.

 

[Cypress]

Given the primitive times (e.g. scribes) and the 300 year interim between the Crucifixion and the Council of Nicaea, I have no doubt much of the NT is a written version of the game Telephone. Still, I think the essence of the message of Jesus rings through clearly.

I believe the balance of evidence is that the New Testament we have is a fairly close approximation of what existed in the first century, particularly for the teachings of Jesus. Some of the weakly attested stories, like the virgin birth and walking on water, are probably later embellishments and hyperbole.

The corroborating sources are: late first century/early second century bishops who quoted Mathew, Luke, Mark, and Paul's epistles. Bishop Po!ycarp seems to have been a disciple of the apostle John, and could have interrogated him on what he saw. Fragments of John and Matthew dating to the mid second century track with the extant Medieval manuscripts quite well.

Any single one of these corroborating source is not sufficient evidence, but taken as a whole, the existing manuscript evidence is fairly convincing.

Now, if only more MAGAts would pick up on that message and start walking it, then things would be better.

Agreed.

 

[gmark77]

the virgin birth and walking on water, are probably later embellishments and hyperbole.

"Probably"? LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

[Guno צְבִי]

Absolutely, Dutch.

They talk the talk...but do not know how to walk the walk.

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them. There is no reason nor sense in the kind of world Trump, Miller, Bannon, and Stone want.

I don't pray...but I fervently hope that the continuing Trump supporters come to their senses and abandon this troubled, dangerous man.

What he said was nothing new, it was always in the Torah and he was Jewish, to non Jews it was something new.

 

[Cypress]

"Probably"?
LOLOLOLOLOL.

English your second language?

If the writer genuinely believed it was true, it's not embellishment or hyperbole.
I don't know whether they did believe it or not.

People have genuinely believed in miracles throughout human history. It seems weird that you don't know that.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Absolutely, Dutch.

They talk the talk...but do not know how to walk the walk.

One does not have to be a Christian to understand and have an appreciation for the thoughts attributed to Jesus. Jesus was about being understanding and tolerant; about helping others rather than just judging them. There is no reason nor sense in the kind of world Trump, Miller, Bannon, and Stone want.

I don't pray...but I fervently hope that the continuing Trump supporters come to their senses and abandon this troubled, dangerous man.

Agreed. What bothers me is that it doesn't seem to matter to much of the MAGA population who claim to be Christians. It's one reason why the response to Erika's 20 min. testimonial and the response to Trump's pompous 43 min. rant about killing caught my interest. It's measurable proof of a split in ideologies; the Evangelical Christian view and that of the MAGA mammon-worshipers. There were earlier indications, but the Day and Night difference between the two astounded me. It adds weight to questions on why Trump is hiding the Epstein Files and constantly endangering lives or actually killing people as distractions.

Anyone who isn't bothered by Trump's lack of humanity, empathy, disrespect for the Constitution and his overall greed can't look in a mirror and honestly call themselves a Christian. Trump is evil and so are those who follow in his path.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I can do a lot better than that. Get a copy of this book:

Goodreads

Discover and share books you love on Goodreads.

www.goodreads.com

Your library may have it on the shelves. It gives an excellent run down of the position of Rome in the early church, as well as the provenances of most of the NT books. Rome did not rule the early church. Antioch was the major center after the Jewish establishment banned Christians from the synagogues in Jerusalem. Christians were an underground sect in Rome. It's significance was due to its being in the capital of the Empire, but it was not the center of Christian theology and did not order the other churches around. That's just absurd. Even modern Catholic scholar no longer claim it is fact, and preface such claims with 'by tradition' these days. It's a 'tradition' to Catholics only. The Edict of Milan wasn't even issued until 313 A.D.

I might cite parts from my copy, if this thread doesn't degenerate into the usual Idiot Festival and sniveling by deviants and commies.

There are only 7 Pauline letters.

Is you are correct in what you said ("In fact they didn't even 'outrank' several Greek churches, as shown by letters from Paul addressing various issues.")...you should be able to give a direct quote from one of them showing that you are correct.

Do it, or don't.

I think you will not, because I think your assertion is a bunch of horseshit.

 

[Ross Dolan]

But Ross never read anything about the history of Christianity, so it doesn't exist in Ross' tiny fever ridden brain. And Douche has apparently never read a book of any kind in hid life, so naturally they love each other.

I suspect I have read a shitload more about the history of Christianity than you.

The Christian Church was founded in the Upper Room of the Temple in Jerusalem. It's first bishop was James, not some Roman bishop. They preached from Jewish synagogues early on. But let's not bother Ross with facts.

You are pathetic as an advocate for your position.

 

[gmark77]

English your second language?

If the writer genuinely believed it was true, it's not embellishment or hyperbole.
I don't know whether they did believe it or not.

People have genuinely believed in miracles throughout human history. It seems weird that you don't know that.

Someone made it up somewhere along the way.