FYI: Iranian cleric: Promiscuous women cause quakes
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the uk...a non muslim source
i've discussed this with muslims and muslim scholars on islamic messageboards...you're clueless, i suggest you learn from muslims instead of those infidel websites
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Warraq"]Ibn Warraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg"]Christoph Luxenberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
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christiefan915
Catalyst
It wasn't in the Qur'an and Ahadith have varying degrees of credibility. They are subject to the interpretation of the writer.
What I do know is that nobody who's read the Qur'an or studied anything about Islam would suggest that terrorists blow up buildings to get 72 virgins in heaven. In my experience it was a vast majority of RW war supporters who were the most vocal in trashing Muslims and misinterpreting Qur'anic verses to support their opinions.
christiefan915
Catalyst
In other words scholars over the centuries have differing interpretations of the words of the Prophet, just like biblical scholars have differing interpretations of the Gospels or other books.
Ahadith don't have the same authority as the Qur'an. Some were authentic and some were fabricated. In the beginning they were passed on via oral tradition and that left a lot of room for error.
Sorry, I'm not "way off base". However, I am interesting in knowing why you seem to believe the worst of Islam, and before you call me a liar again, I got this from our previous arguments over it.
christiefan915
Catalyst
What did you learn from all that discussion, and why do you think the UK source is an infidel website?
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because it is a non believer in muhammad...
i learned that the majority of muslims believe it does mean virgins, the scholars are currently debating this as the issue is in the limelight and it makes islam look bad in some scholars eyes, in others, they believe muslims shouldn't care what kafir's think...
btw, the idea of this did not start with non muslims, it started with muslims
christiefan915
Catalyst
You got your link from a website run by rightwing, anti-islamic xenophobes. Did Drudge turn you onto this site? I guess I'm not surprised.
WikiIslam Homepage:
You ain't just whistling Dixie. I did more research on it.
Is WikiIslam a branch of Wikipedia or the Wikimedia foundation?
No, we are not in any way related to or endorsed by these organizations. Our only commonality is our use of the same freely available software, Mediawiki, which is also used by hundreds of other wiki websites.
How is WikiIslam different from WikiPedia?
WikiIslam focuses on the criticism of Islam while Wikipedia contains general knowledge about all kinds of subjects. A big difference between WikiIslam and Wikipedia is that articles are not required to be NPOV ("Neutral Point of View").
And get this one:
Can pro-Islamic opinions be found on WikiIslam?
We do have articles from a Muslim perspective but we do not allow insertion of pro-Islamic opinions into existing articles. Any pro-Islamic opinions that are found on WikiIslam will be rebutted. For reading and contributing exclusively pro-Islamic opinions please see the Muslim Wikipedia.
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/WikiIslam:Frequently_Asked_Questions
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no, my understanding is the debates are recent, they are debating the long held belief it is virgins.....
if you don't believe the hadiths have the same authority as the quran, then you fall amongst the minority shia, the sunnis who are the vast majority of islam, believe otherwise because both are words from the prophet which are words from allah....
i don't believe in the "worst of islam", that is pure nonsense. their halal food is virtually identical to kosher, i have no problem if they don't want to drink alcohol etc.....i do however have problems with other aspects of it. that type of comment could easily be turned around....
christiefan915
Catalyst
Then what aspects do you have problems with?
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not exhaustive:
if allah is so all knowing, all powerful, why did allah have muhammad worship towards jerusalem 'knowing' that the jews would reject 'his prophet' and then have muhammad change towards mecca
muhammad had a few major arguments/issues with his wives; allah apparently felt the need to make quranic verses just to deal with muhammad's squabbles and to set muhammad above everyone else because, well, he is muhammad
christiefan915
Catalyst
This doesn't sound any different than people arguing against Christianity because "how can a compassionate, all-knowing Deity let bad things happen to people", etc. You know the drill.
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it sounds different to me, because i believe differently....
and logically, no, they are not the same things....god never promised us a rose garden here on earth, in fact, the bible is specific that sin happens as a result of the fall in eden....and the wages of sin are death...and all else with it
christiefan915
Catalyst
God never promised us that but you wouldn't know it from the way some preachers talk. IMO the worst example of it is the so-called prosperity theology-- if God favors us He'll show us with material stuff.
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yeah....those verses are taken way out of context
They make no sense, when you later hear Jesus say that it is more difficult for a rich man to get into heaven than for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, in the next breath saying God will shower you with riches makes no sense at all.
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can you give the verses you're talking about...i know the rich one....but the shower one...
Why ask me when it was first brought up by Christiefan?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology"]Prosperity theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Prosperity Theology is based on a group of verses about having blessing "poured out upon" them...
When you take the more direct approach of Jesus it becomes very clear that God isn't speaking of "riches" when talking about those blessings...
Luke 18:25, Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25...
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because i was responding to you, you were more specific....sorry to bother you