Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Every time you post this idiocy Desh. The above was the FIRST vote. It is not the FINAL BILL. The vote on the FINAL BILL... THE ONE CLINTON SIGNED... WAS 90-8.
A lesson from California...
- Thread starter Cancel 2016.2
- Start date
Every time you post this idiocy Desh. The above was the FIRST vote. It is not the FINAL BILL. The vote on the FINAL BILL... THE ONE CLINTON SIGNED... WAS 90-8.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
ROFLMAO.... yeah, you are right. The unions couldn't possibly wield that much power in CA. So you think it is only the governor that negotiates with the unions? Or do you think it might be the Democratic led Congress? Again, had you bothered to actually READ the article, you would know that the bulk of the damage was done under that one Dem....
Again, you fucking moron... WHAT are they foregoing? They are the HIGHEST PAID IN THE NATION.
READ the FUCKING ARTICLE.... you are simply spouting off more ignorant talking points from your masters. If the average public sector union employee is making MORE than the average private sector worker, then they are not forgoing anything.
Do try to educate yourself on the power of the unions in CA. Because you have no clue what you are talking about if you think the unions do not have that power.
cawacko
Well-known member
I'll guarantee you you weren't complaining about CEO pay and bonuses to top executives when it came to Fannie and Freddie.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
This just in... Unions do not have enough power to sway elections in CA.... just thought you should know.
Hilarious. First you blame the legislature. Then you claim that all the trouble in California was caused by one Democratic governor elected after Ronald Regan, not the 24 years (out of 27 since) of Republican rule. Get real.
Um, that's what we in the business of calling bullshit call bullshit. It's a red herring. Even assuming it is true, it does not prove what you think it proves.
Hah. I'm spouting off talking points? That "article" that you have there is nothing but talking points from some guy at a right-wing anti-union think tank. Look, I don't go around posting articles from left-wing publications attempting to pass them off as gospel. You should try to do the same or at least acknowledge the quite apparent bias of your sources.
I'm not claiming that unions do not have power in CA. I'm merely making the quite obvious point that California public employees do not have the electoral power that you claim that they have, even assuming that they vote as a bloc (an unfounded assumption). In fact, California has the 6th lowest ratio of public employees to population in the country.
http://www.ccsce.com/pdf/Numbers-mar07-govt-employees.pdf
cawacko
Well-known member
Yeah I saw that. That would be news to people out here. Ask Arnold how taking on the unions worked out for him in the special election back in '05 or how he did trying to reform public union pension plans from a defined benefit to the 401k type.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
1) I did not state that ALL the trouble was created under Davis you idiot. That is simply a straw man attempt by you.... AGAIN. I stated that the big hits WERE under Davis... when the Dems had complete control of CA and did what their union masters told them to.
2) The legislature has been DEM controlled for how long? They are most certainly to be held responsible for caving in to their union masters.
Again you twit... if they are the highest paid at their positions and on average their salaries are higher than the average worker, then it is hardly a red herring to state they are NOT forgoing any current salary.
I am not attempting to pass this off as gospel you fucking moron. I posted an article that highlights the unions influence in CA. If you would like to actually READ the article and discuss the points that you think are inaccurate, feel free. But your continued bullshit hackish partisan 'attack the site/author' vs. actually trying to show us WHAT in the article you think is wrong, is quite simply pathetic.
Do try to pay attention moron. NO ONE suggested that they had the power in terms of just their numbers. Their power lies in their MONEY. Only a complete hack would try to pretend that I somehow meant it was just their electoral power alone.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Warning.... keep your feet up.... Dung is flinging a lot of shit trying to spin his way out of the 'unions don't possess the power' comments.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
To put the blame on Proposition 13 is disingenuous. Property taxes were going out of sight and seniors had to give up their homes. . They needed relief. The blame goes directly to the state legislators with their wild spending for decades.
Billions of dollars are spent on illegal aliens annually. People have been flocking into California for welfare for decades and it is a welfare state.
California has never had a good school system, so that’s a lie too.
PHP:
Oh, right. Davis was the "bulk" of the problem. I see. Funny how it just so happens that the one Democratic governor over the past 27 years created the "bulk" of the problem.
Yes, it is a red herring. Whether they would be even more highly paid if they had no pension is not resolved by the fact that they are highly paid.
Dude, you started with the "talking point" name calling nonsense. What's the old proverb about a splinter in one's eye?
Oh, here I thought that the comment that "when you have government unions that are allowed to elect their bosses and who also wield the power to FIRE their bosses if they don't get what they want" you were commenting on their electoral power.
Sorry for accurately comprehending what you wrote.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
It aint typical bullshit from the left. It's a living fact. I sat on my grandfathers lap and heard to stories of what it was like to be a working man back in the 1920's and in the great depression when only about 15% of the nation was middle class.
I mean do you have any idea of the staggering hypocracy of your rigth wing extremist position?
It's ok for businesses to organize and consolidate rescources and to negotiate for the most benifits and profits for their poduct and services but it's not ok for working people to do that? What total right wing, anti-middle class horse shit. What staggering hypocracy!
It's ok for Wall Street and Corporations to pay politicians millions of dollars and then hold their feet to the fire on the issues that are important to them but it's not ok for working people to do that via their unions? What a one sided lump of shit sandwhich hypocritical piece of bull shit are you trying to feed me?
If I work in a corporation and I recieve golden parachutes off of playing tricks with other peoples money it's ok to retire at 55 but if I can retire after 30 years of working a union job doing productive work, according to you, I can't retire cause you don't like it and are just simply jealous so it's not ok, but it is ok for some hack in wall street to do it just after he's bankrupted Goldman/Sachs? Again, what a major mother fucking double standard class war fare right wing hypocrit you are.
You're blaming the wrong fucking people for California's problems. Why the fuck shouldn't prison guards and school teachers bargain for the highest wages the market will bear for their work? Isn't that exactly what the fuck you do for the wages you recieve? Why is it unfair for them do do that but it's fair for you do to that, you hypocrit?
Last edited:
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
You obviously know the answer but are afraid to say it.
Its nice to see you change your name because of me.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
And what about the Wall Street executives who bankrupted all these investment banks who got ungodly bonuses and golden parachutes? Do the contribute more they they've earned after bilking the American Public for trillions of dollars?
You're point isn't relevent. These folks negotiated for these wages and benefits and earned them as part of their compensation package. Just like you do with the compensation package you earn at your job or the profits you earn via your buisness. The fact that the State of California failed in its fudiciary responsibility is not their fault and to blame it on them is right wing class war fare aimed at middle class and working people.
Last edited:
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You are exactly fucking right my friend. The level of their hypocracy is breath taking.
cawacko
Well-known member
What do a handful of Wall St CEO's have to do with what we are talking about here? And how do a couple of dozen people compare to hundreds of thousands?
And how the state is suppose to pay for these packages they negotiate with the unions isn't relevant to taxpayers? That's interesting to note.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Again.... READ the FUCKING ARTICLE..... He got his bribes from the prison guards and cops, got elected, then proceeded to hand them a massive raise. THAT is what happens when you are able to elect your masters.
AGAIN... it is not just who was governor. You continue to ignore who CONTROLLED THE STATE CONGRESS. Even in years where there is a Rep Governor... the numbers of Dems in Congress killed any attempts to reduce the power of the unions. Ask Arnold about that... or look back to the teachers getting their guarantee of 40% of revenues.
"The CTA entered the big time in 1988, when it almost single-handedly led a statewide push to pass Proposition 98, an initiative—opposed by taxpayer groups and Governor George Deukmejian—that required 40 percent of the state’s budget to fund local education."
So even when there was a Rep Governor, the unions were still able to pass it through the State Assembly with enough power to mute the Governor.
That is the biggest line of bullshit I have heard from you in a while and that is saying a LOT. A person could ALWAYS be paid more you idiot. So you could run around stating that the whole world is forgoing salary today. That is absurd. If they are making the most IN their profession AND their average salary is HIGHER than that of the average private sector employee with similar education levels, then they ARE NOT FORGOING SALARY.
So in your warped little world of the braindead, you don't believe the amount of money a campaign has available to it has any bearing on the election? You think it is simply a matter of head count?
Seriously, your level of hackery has gone up tenfold in the past few years.
Last edited:
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Since Dung refuses to actually read the article, I suppose I will have to post it piecemeal for him so that he can absorb the information in small enough doses so as to not overwhelm his inefficient cognitive functions.
Fix your quote boxes to that post above and I'll respond. Just an FYI, that bill that passed in 1999 passed the State Senate 35-0 and the Assembly 70-7. Laying the blame on Davis, who happened to be governor at the time, is laughable.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
My goodness, what a nice little tale you spin.... I am NOT talking about the need for unions in the 1920's-1950's. Nor did I state that unions should never have existed.
The only hypocrisy is in the straw man you created to represent 'my position'
Again, you are creating a straw man. I did not state workers did not have the right to negotiate with businesses for contracts. So unless you care to show where I stated any such nonsense, then do stop pulling shit out of your ass.
This simply is more ignorance on your part. Where did I state it was ok for Wall Street and Corporations to pay politicians off? You are again, simply creating a straw man. It is getting old.
Again, yet ANOTHER STRAW MAN. No where did I state it was ok for corporate execs to do any such thing. You quite simply have nothing to actually refute anything I stated, so you continue to create bullshit straw men in a vain attempt to pretend you are 'debating' this issue.
[/quote]You're blaming the wrong fucking people for California's problems. Why the fuck shouldn't prison guards and school teachers bargain for the highest wages the market will bear for their work? Isn't that exactly what the fuck you do for the wages you recieve? Why is it unfair for them do do that but it's fair for you do to that, you hypocrit?[/QUOTE]
Again... WHO are they 'bargaining' with? .... the people they put in office.
WHO actually pays? the taxpayers.
It is NOT what the market is willing to bear for their work you moron. They essentially have monopolies. Let charter and private schools have equal access to the tax dollars per student spent on education. Then let the parents decide where they want their kids to go to school. THEN you will see how the market values the public school system. Why do you think the teachers union fights the voucher program so much? Because they know that with COMPETITION, the 'market' WOULD NOT BEAR their insanity.
IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.
Socrtease
Verified User
Ahhh it's the illegal aliens. According to S&P, that bastion of liberalism, undocumented workers account or between 6 and 7 BILLION dollars a year to Social Security which is placed in an "earnings suspense file" and will never be claimed against.[1] If these undocumented workers went away, it would hurt the economy more than it would help. Prices would go up, and tax revenues would go down because undocumented workers pay sales tax, and property tax either directly or indirectly. See note one for all of this information. While I anticipate AHZ reaction to this, I am not saying we should encourage an influx of undocumented workers, I am just saying that their harm to the economy is greatly exagerated. But like SF I am sure that the BW article will not be read by the "blame the wetback" crowd anymore than his was read by the "unions are great crowd."