A lesson from California...

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says it all
 
California is failing because of the conservatives who want all the spending in the world and no taxes. Get the conservatives out of California and it'd be the most cleanly run state in the US.
 
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California is failing because of the conservatives who want all the spending in the world and no taxbreaks. Get the conservatives out of California and it'd be the most cleanly run state in the US.

As I stated... and the watertrolll demonstrated above... some people are simply incapable of actually reading the information presented and thus resort to absurd posts as the one above.
 
http://city-journal.org/2010/20_2_california-unions.html

A bit longer read... which means many on the left will simply post knee jerk reactions rather than reading the whole article... but for those who wish to read more on why CA is failing so miserably... read on...

Interesting article. Why has it come to this? Let's take a closer look.

(Excerpt)California taxpayers nevertheless received a brief respite, thanks to the mid-decade housing boom that drove the economy and tax collections higher and momentarily eased the state’s budget crisis. (End)

A person's home increased in value resulting in an increase in taxes. The taxes were paid to the State and all was fine. The question is, "Where did the people get the money to pay the tax increase?" Obviously they had it or they wouldn't have paid the taxes.

In other words if my home doubles in value and the corresponding taxes double where do I get the money to pay them? Just the fact my home may have doubled in value does not mean my savings account for taxes doubled. It means I had the money to pay double the taxes I was previously paying whether or not my home increased in value.

Of course, no one complains about paying more tax as long as it corresponds to the value their home increases. In other words they have the money to pay a tax increase independently of whether their home increases in value because just the fact their home increased in value does not mean they received more money in their savings account.

Where the problem lies is while the government brought in more money from rising house values, which means the prospect of a home care worker or a hospital janitor and other lower paid employee affording a home became less and less of a reality, the government didn't offer a one time bonus. The union had to fight for a permanent wage increase in order to keep up with the rising prices.

The same thing happened during the 90s with the tech boom. The Federal Government had a surplus. Did they offer anything to those on welfare?

Don't we always hear about how welfare payments cost the government so much money, which is a lie itself but for the sake of argument we'll assume it's true, but when the government has money does it ever send a few dollars to the poor? No, it does not. In other words the idea the government can not afford to look after the poor better than it does is a lie.

That's why, when there are good times, unions go after wage increases because they know if they wait they'll hear the same story from the government, "We can't afford it."

The same thing happens with many companies. When a company does exceptionally well does it give unionized employees a bonus? Not as far as I'm aware so employees go for permanent wage increases. Then when the company doesn't do so good it whines about the high employee wages. If the company shared the good times with the employees things would be different.

So, when it comes to whining about high union wages governments and companies bring it on themselves. Maybe one day they'll learn.

Signed,
K. Marx

:)
 
Interesting article. Why has it come to this? Let's take a closer look.

(Excerpt)California taxpayers nevertheless received a brief respite, thanks to the mid-decade housing boom that drove the economy and tax collections higher and momentarily eased the state’s budget crisis. (End)

A person's home increased in value resulting in an increase in taxes. The taxes were paid to the State and all was fine. The question is, "Where did the people get the money to pay the tax increase?" Obviously they had it or they wouldn't have paid the taxes.

In other words if my home doubles in value and the corresponding taxes double where do I get the money to pay them? Just the fact my home may have doubled in value does not mean my savings account for taxes doubled. It means I had the money to pay double the taxes I was previously paying whether or not my home increased in value.

Of course, no one complains about paying more tax as long as it corresponds to the value their home increases. In other words they have the money to pay a tax increase independently of whether their home increases in value because just the fact their home increased in value does not mean they received more money in their savings account.

Where the problem lies is while the government brought in more money from rising house values, which means the prospect of a home care worker or a hospital janitor and other lower paid employee affording a home became less and less of a reality, the government didn't offer a one time bonus. The union had to fight for a permanent wage increase in order to keep up with the rising prices.

The same thing happened during the 90s with the tech boom. The Federal Government had a surplus. Did they offer anything to those on welfare?

Don't we always hear about how welfare payments cost the government so much money, which is a lie itself but for the sake of argument we'll assume it's true, but when the government has money does it ever send a few dollars to the poor? No, it does not. In other words the idea the government can not afford to look after the poor better than it does is a lie.

That's why, when there are good times, unions go after wage increases because they know if they wait they'll hear the same story from the government, "We can't afford it."

The same thing happens with many companies. When a company does exceptionally well does it give unionized employees a bonus? Not as far as I'm aware so employees go for permanent wage increases. Then when the company doesn't do so good it whines about the high employee wages. If the company shared the good times with the employees things would be different.

So, when it comes to whining about high union wages governments and companies bring it on themselves. Maybe one day they'll learn.

Signed,
K. Marx

:)

First of all California has Prop 13 so nobody who owns a home had their property taxes double. The higher property tax doesn't kick in until a home is sold.
 
First of all California has Prop 13 so nobody who owns a home had their property taxes double. The higher property tax doesn't kick in until a home is sold.

To apple: First of all, read the above.

Second: If the unions were worried about keeping up with property taxes as you suggested, then why not simply tie the wage increases into the property tax adjustment? When prop taxes go up, their wages go up. When prop taxes go down, so do their wages? Obviously this is a moot point in CA, but in playing along with your scenario... why wouldn't they?
 
That must work wonders for the re-sale housing market.

It works about the same as in states that revalue at regular intervals.

IMHO, the prop 13 system isn't fair. You shouldn't have lower taxes just because you've lived there longer. I know some conservative morons will say "Lower taxes no matter what!", but that's ignorant. We should all agree on a size of government, and raise what we all agree are the least unfairest possible taxes to fund that. This lower taxes at all costs philosophy is a plague.
 
Apparently tutu thinks that newer residents should be taxed at higher rates than older residents. I'd like to hear her explain how, in any universe, such a system could be considered fair.
 
To apple: First of all, read the above.

Second: If the unions were worried about keeping up with property taxes as you suggested, then why not simply tie the wage increases into the property tax adjustment? When prop taxes go up, their wages go up. When prop taxes go down, so do their wages? Obviously this is a moot point in CA, but in playing along with your scenario... why wouldn't they?

Wouldn't it be easier to give bonuses when the government finds a surplus? Or a company finds a surplus?

While I was not aware of Prop 13 the point is we only hear about union wages when a government or company has a slump.

Another thing I hear about, elsewhere, is retired folks having a difficult time paying their property taxes. Now there is a reverse mortgage plan where retired folks can draw equity from their home; basically re-mortgage.

Some folks are against older people having to do that. While on the face of it I can sympathize the older person would live in the home at a lower cost than someone new to the neighborhood and when they pass away their children would get the home. Why should their children benefit? The older person is not the beneficiary to such a deal.
 
It works about the same as in states that revalue at regular intervals.

IMHO, the prop 13 system isn't fair. You shouldn't have lower taxes just because you've lived there longer. I know some conservative morons will say "Lower taxes no matter what!", but that's ignorant. We should all agree on a size of government, and raise what we all agree are the least unfairest possible taxes to fund that. This lower taxes at all costs philosophy is a plague.

But you have higher income tax rates if you make more money. Why is that fair and Prop 13 is not?
 
http://city-journal.org/2010/20_2_california-unions.html

A bit longer read... which means many on the left will simply post knee jerk reactions rather than reading the whole article... but for those who wish to read more on why CA is failing so miserably... read on...

california governments did not want to pay workable pay so they took the 'shortcut' to pass on costs to future generations and now that 'benefits' are due complain about the costs

the real problems with the pension funds is that the money in them was invested in the stock market
 
I really don't see the point of state governments investing in the stock market for pensions.

You know what's a much better investment? Your states economy. Just let the senior spend their money there, and introduce a tax to soak the economic benefit from that up. It's never going to go 1000000% south.

Investing in stock market funds, however, is going to mean your investing all over the place. You're not specifically helping your state out here. And, let's face it, state pension plans are ALWAYS the first thing to get soaked in any kind crisis. Maybe that's actually the point of California's logic, to ensure that state workers get nothing.
 
http://city-journal.org/2010/20_2_california-unions.html

A bit longer read... which means many on the left will simply post knee jerk reactions rather than reading the whole article... but for those who wish to read more on why CA is failing so miserably... read on...
Just more anti-union propaganda written by people who hate and fear the middle class and want to eliminate it.

Anyone who thinks California's budget crises is a result of the wages paid to union employees is a moron who can't do math and who hates seeing working people make a living wage.

Right wingers wont' be happy until a handful of them own everything and we go back to where everyone is lucky to get a 6th grade education and has to work 16 hour days 6 days a week in unsafe factories where a persons life is far less important then profits.

I am where I am today, an educated and productive middle class professional thanks in a large part to the Unions!
 
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