The abortion issue: one solution

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Your problem is that you think your denial of, or inability to fathom a response equates with your intial assertions being correct.

Here's what you wrote:

You see, I have a moral problem with funding all Federal programs that aren't specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

My response: Oh spare me that old, lame ass right wing crap! Federal regulations for clean drinking water, healthy food, highways, air travel, immuniztions, hospital/doctor standards of treatment, train travel, etc. Since you use one or more of these on a regular basis, that makes you a liar and a hypocrit!
As any rational adult with the high school GED and an understanding of critical thinking would agree, it is YOU who failed to substantiate your assertion, thus your entire premise falls apart.

I don't necessarily agree that all that crap is best served by use of the federal government. Then you are TRULY a willfully ignorant neocon parrot! Either that or you are just plain ignorant about this country's history, the role of Federal agencies and just plain civics that were (or use to be) taught in 8th grade. That being said, if a super majority believes that stuff is worth regulating/ funding by the feds, then the Amendment process should be used, not usurpation of the Constitution, which again, I find to be immoral; the reason being that many thousands shed blood and treasure in an oath to protect it. The end does not justify the means.

Hence your argument in the OP fails.

What fails is your convoluted logic.....the process by which this bill was passed was legal and above board.....AMENDMENTS come AFTER a bill is made law, you ignorant lout! Also, the SCOTUS could rule against the law, or a State Attorney could file suit against it! But this takes place AFTER the bill goes through the process and becomes LAW. That was done fair and square, the Dems using the same processes the GOP used in the recent past.

So you can spin all the fantastic scenarios you want...given your admitted ignorance as to how basic gov't is crucial to maintain the infra-structure of your life, I have no cause to further entertain your blatherings.
 
You racist fucks didn't want blacks and woman to vote either. 2 more issues you fundamental christian tie around republicans necks like an anchor. The fact that you pussies like to fight wars with other peoples kids make you the murder.

if you had actually gone on to finish high school you likely would have learned that both blacks and women got the right to vote due to the actions of religious organizations.....the fact you know nothing has never kept you from posting before, but I enjoy educating you.....
 
What fails is your convoluted logic.....the process by which this bill was passed was legal and above board.....AMENDMENTS come AFTER a bill is made law, you ignorant lout! Also, the SCOTUS could rule against the law, or a State Attorney could file suit against it! But this takes place AFTER the bill goes through the process and becomes LAW. That was done fair and square, the Dems using the same processes the GOP used in the recent past.

So you can spin all the fantastic scenarios you want...given your admitted ignorance as to how basic gov't is crucial to maintain the infra-structure of your life, I have no cause to further entertain your blatherings.

Constitutional Amendments are the only thing that can legally change the Constitution, Libbie. Do you know what the Bill of Rights is? Have you ever read Amendments IX and X?

It's so funny that you attempt to deride me from lack of knowledge yet you don't even know the basics. :)
 
Constitutional Amendments are the only thing that can legally change the Constitution, Libbie. Do you know what the Bill of Rights is? Have you ever read Amendments IX and X?

It's so funny that you attempt to deride me from lack of knowledge yet you don't even know the basics. :)

You fucking idiot....do you know what a law is? Do you understand how Congress passes laws? Are you saying that laws cannot be amended? :palm:

You're done!
 
You fucking idiot....do you know what a law is? Do you understand how Congress passes laws? Are you saying that laws cannot be amended? :palm:

You're done!
You're being purposefully obtuse Libbie, refusing to acknowledge that in this post below the word (capital A) Amendment obviously refers to an Amendment to the Constitution:

I don't necessarily agree that all that crap is best served by use of the federal government. That being said, if a super majority believes that stuff is worth regulating/ funding by the feds, then the Amendment process should be used, not usurpation of the Constitution, which again, I find to be immoral; the reason being that many thousands shed blood and treasure in an oath to protect it. The end does not justify the means.

The "chronology of the posts" cannot be undone.

Hence your argument in the OP fails. :)
 
You're being purposefully obtuse Libbie, refusing to acknowledge that in this post below the word (capital A) Amendment obviously refers to an Amendment to the Constitution:



The "chronology of the posts" cannot be undone.

Hence your argument in the OP fails. :)


So you are saying that a LAW cannot be amended. :palm:

We're talking about laws, you dunce...laws IN ACCORDANCE with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Laws that can be amended, ratified, repealed, etc., via Congress or the SCOTUS. Obviously, you fell asleep in civics class long ago.

Roe vs. Wade is LAW! My proposal would work in accordance with State & Federal LAW to provide an option to have some of your tax dollars exempt from going to facilities that provide abortions...well within the rights granted by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. To date, no one who is against abortion can rationally or logically tell me why this proposal isn't feasible.

As the chronology of the posts shows, you're full of it as ususal. So continue your failed dodges and parrot mode. You may have the last, predictable word.
 
So you are saying that a LAW cannot be amended. ....
Not at all. I'm saying that if a super majority believes that stuff is worth regulating/ funding by the feds, then the Amendment process should be used, not usurpation of the Constitution.

Hence your argument in the OP fails.
 
Not at all. I'm saying that if a super majority believes that stuff is worth regulating/ funding by the feds, then the Amendment process should be used, not usurpation of the Constitution.


Hence your argument in the OP fails.

And since that DID NOT happen with Roe vs. Wade...nor would my proposal in any way, shape or form "usurp" the Constitution, as it merely gives an option regarding the regulation of commerce, your statement here is unapplicable, despite your belief to the contrary. Goodnight, gracie.
 
And since that DID NOT happen with Roe vs. Wade...nor would my proposal in any way, shape or form "usurp" the Constitution, as it merely gives an option regarding the regulation of commerce, your statement here is unapplicable, despite your belief to the contrary. Goodnight, gracie.
Article I Section 8
The Congress shall have Power [Clause 3]:To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States...

Nice try Libbie, but are women going to have an abortion in more than one State? Perhaps if she has her head in Massachusetts and her abdomen in Connecticut?

How incredibly lame. Just because I destroyed your OP argument doesn't mean you need to look like a bumbling fool.
 
Article I Section 8
The Congress shall have Power [Clause 3]:To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States...

Nice try Libbie, but are women going to have an abortion in more than one State? Perhaps if she has her head in Massachusetts and her abdomen in Connecticut?

How incredibly lame. Just because I destroyed your OP argument doesn't mean you need to look like a bumbling fool.

He doesn't need to look like one; but he really has no choice in the matter.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
And since that DID NOT happen with Roe vs. Wade...nor would my proposal in any way, shape or form "usurp" the Constitution, as it merely gives an option regarding the regulation of commerce, your statement here is unapplicable, despite your belief to the contrary. Goodnight, gracie.

Article I Section 8
The Congress shall have Power [Clause 3]:To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States...

Nice try Libbie, but are women going to have an abortion in more than one State? Perhaps if she has her head in Massachusetts and her abdomen in Connecticut?

How incredibly lame. Just because I destroyed your OP argument doesn't mean you need to look like a bumbling fool.

:palm: My God, you are truly pathetic! Here stupid, READ and Learn

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


Funny how you missed that....seems you have a knack for ignoring what you don't like or doesn't fit into your belief system.

Now I'll connect the dots for you: Roe vs. Wade made abortion a LEGAL part of the medical health facilities provided by hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
That falls under the "general welfare" category...and again, my proposal does NOTHING to "usurp" the Constitution, just an option to regulation of commerce in the individual states....similar to opting to donate money to the "clean air/water/wildlife preservation" options that have appeared on tax forms.

Next time, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT MATTER BEFORE YOU POST...makes you look less foolish. (oh, and before you copy and paste this line for some near future retort, you should check whether you can logically and factually back up what you'll say). Carry on.
 
Originally Posted by Southern Man
Article I Section 8
The Congress shall have Power [Clause 3]:To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States...

Nice try Libbie, but are women going to have an abortion in more than one State? Perhaps if she has her head in Massachusetts and her abdomen in Connecticut?

How incredibly lame. Just because I destroyed your OP argument doesn't mean you need to look like a bumbling fool.

He doesn't need to look like one; but he really has no choice in the matter.

:palm: Tweedledumb being encouraged by Tweedledumber: Get a clue:

Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - The abortion issue: one solution
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Tweedledumb being encouraged by Tweedledumber: Get a clue:

Just Plain Politics! - View Single Post - The abortion issue: one solution

You might want to take a second look at this; because no one was encouraging you, but we are still laughing at you.

Translation: I logically and factually prove Southie wrong.....this idiot complemented Southie on his stupidity.....then faced with the FACT that he's just as ignorant as Southie, he blows smoke.

Once again folks, this dope abuses his freedom in the USA by being proudly ignorant and too much of a coward to admit he's wrong. He is a disgrace to all who died on the day he invokes.
 
Translation: I logically and factually prove Southie wrong.....this idiot complemented Southie on his stupidity.....then faced with the FACT that he's just as ignorant as Southie, he blows smoke.

Once again folks, this dope abuses his freedom in the USA by being proudly ignorant and too much of a coward to admit he's wrong. He is a disgrace to all who died on the day he invokes.

I win.
Everyone I bet on IM, that sissie would use the phrase "logically and factually" in his reply, now owes me $1.00.

Let's see who wins the next bet, on what phrase he will parrot.
 
I win.

You mean you logically and factually disproved post #191? Funny, that's not on the thread...perhaps you can enlighten us all with your fact based and logical critique?

Everyone I bet on IM, that sissie (this is either a toddler's word for his sister, or announcing that he's pissed hispants. You need to check your spelling.)would use the phrase "logically and factually" in his reply, now owes me $1.00.

Ahh, so essentially you've got NOTHING to offer with regards to my proving Southie wrong and you're squawking in agreement....you're just babbling like a petulant child angry at being schooled by an adult.

Let's see who wins the next bet, on what phrase he will parrot.

There you have it folks...this man who invokes the deaths of thousands of Americans in some faux patriotic signature has neither the intellect or honesty to debate an issue....he is merely wasting his life following me around for 8 years nursing a grudge. I almost pity him....almost.
 
:palm: My God, you are truly pathetic! Here stupid, READ and Learn

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


Funny how you missed that....seems you have a knack for ignoring what you don't like or doesn't fit into your belief system.

Now I'll connect the dots for you: Roe vs. Wade made abortion a LEGAL part of the medical health facilities provided by hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
That falls under the "general welfare" category...and again, my proposal does NOTHING to "usurp" the Constitution, just an option to regulation of commerce in the individual states....similar to opting to donate money to the "clean air/water/wildlife preservation" options that have appeared on tax forms.

Next time, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT MATTER BEFORE YOU POST...makes you look less foolish. (oh, and before you copy and paste this line for some near future retort, you should check whether you can logically and factually back up what you'll say). Carry on.
You do know the difference between "state" and "individual" yes? They can provide for the defense or general welfare of the STATES...

It is very clear when you read the whole of the document that they use those words carefully, you know "state" and "individual"...

In order to provide for the general welfare of the States they have specific enumerated powers and rights, none of which are "Health Care" or "education" (both are most definitely powers when utilized and controlled by a government entity), and those powers and rights that are not enumerated are left to the states, or to the individual...
 
You might want to take a second look at this; because no one was encouraging you, but we are still laughing at you.

You're cheerleading Southie, not me. I proved him wrong, and your stupid enough to agree with him....unless you just cheer lead anyone who is against me without understanding what the discussion is about. Either way you look pretty foolish.

But I expect nothing less from a fake patriot who spends 8 years following me around and reading everything I write and then say it's a worthless joke. See that therapist, Tempie...you're not well.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
My God, you are truly pathetic! Here stupid, READ and Learn

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
;

Funny how you missed that....seems you have a knack for ignoring what you don't like or doesn't fit into your belief system.

Now I'll connect the dots for you: Roe vs. Wade made abortion a LEGAL part of the medical health facilities provided by hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
That falls under the "general welfare" category...and again, my proposal does NOTHING to "usurp" the Constitution, just an option to regulation of commerce in the individual states....similar to opting to donate money to the "clean air/water/wildlife preservation" options that have appeared on tax forms.

Next time, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT MATTER BEFORE YOU POST...makes you look less foolish. (oh, and before you copy and paste this line for some near future retort, you should check whether you can logically and factually back up what you'll say). Carry on.

You do know the difference between "state" and "individual" yes? They can provide for the defense or general welfare of the STATES...

Spare me the bullshit, Damo.....we're not talking about forestry here. Every blessed time some neocon yahoo gets caught with their pants down regarding the Constitution then suddenly they treat everything like a literal translation. You want to waste time and space on that old ploy, do it with someone who's actually patient enough to indulge that silliness.

It is very clear when you read the whole of the document that they use those words carefully, you know "state" and "individual"...

It's also very clear that the STATE is populated by PEOPLE, you know..CITIZENS. If you need a constant reminder of who makes up the armies, states and such before you comprehend what's being put forth, I can't help you. Also, it's also very clear that if YOU read what I was responding to, that person DIDN'T EVEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT I POSTED ABOVE. They tried to excerpt specific parts. It's a COMPREHENSIVE read, don't cha know?

In order to provide for the general welfare of the States they have specific enumerated powers and rights, none of which are "Health Care" or "education" (both are most definitely powers when utilized and controlled by a government entity), and those powers and rights that are not enumerated are left to the states, or to the individual...

:palm:
Okay, let me try again:

Combine the previous excerpt I provided with this:

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Now, in while looking after the general welfare of the USA, you also have power to regulate commerce. Last time I checked, the health insurance companies make up a hefty percentage of the country's financial profit makers....and they contain many national companies. Now Congress regulates commerce....which is how the health insurance companies enjoy an exemption of the anti-trust laws. SOOO, if you're willing to accept gov't regulation of healthcare on one end, my proposal is keeping well in step and should not ruffle your feathers or elicit convoluted claptrap regarding Constitutional uninvolment in the discussion. Capice?
 
:palm: My God, you are truly pathetic! Here stupid, READ and Learn

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


Funny how you missed that....seems you have a knack for ignoring what you don't like or doesn't fit into your belief system.

Now I'll connect the dots for you: Roe vs. Wade made abortion a LEGAL part of the medical health facilities provided by hospitals, doctors, nurses, etc.
That falls under the "general welfare" category...and again, my proposal does NOTHING to "usurp" the Constitution, just an option to regulation of commerce in the individual states....similar to opting to donate money to the "clean air/water/wildlife preservation" options that have appeared on tax forms.

Next time, KNOW YOUR SUBJECT MATTER BEFORE YOU POST...makes you look less foolish. (oh, and before you copy and paste this line for some near future retort, you should check whether you can logically and factually back up what you'll say). Carry on.

Libbie, it makes me so happy to see you shoot yourself in the foot like this. When I'm skiing at Lake Tahoe next week I will think fondly of this gift that you gave me today. :)

Have you ever heard of James Madison? Historians call him "The 'Father of the Constitution,' [since] he was the principal author of the document." James Madison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Madison also wrote some of the Federalist Papers. These were a series of papers published during the time that the Constitution was being debated on and "sold" to the American People. They are the best indication that we have to ascertain the true intent of The Framers.

In Federalist 14 Madison discusses limited government and alludes to what is meant by Article I Section 8:

In the first place it is to be remembered that the general government is not to be charged with the whole power of making and administering laws. Its jurisdiction is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any. The subordinate governments, which can extend their care to all those other subjects which can be separately provided for, will retain their due authority and activity.

Apparently there were dim-wits back then as well, or perhaps Madison somehow knew that you'd be giving me this awesome gift on March 26, 2010, because in Federalist 41 he directly addresses your dim-witted assertion, pointing out Article I Section 8 specifically:

It has been urged and echoed, that the power ``to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,'' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases. A power to destroy the freedom of the press, the trial by jury, or even to regulate the course of descents, or the forms of conveyances, must be very singularly expressed by the terms ``to raise money for the general welfare. ''But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon? If the different parts of the same instrument ought to be so expounded, as to give meaning to every part which will bear it, shall one part of the same sentence be excluded altogether from a share in the meaning; and shall the more doubtful and indefinite terms be retained in their full extent, and the clear and precise expressions be denied any signification whatsoever? For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power? Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which, as we are reduced to the dilemma of charging either on the authors of the objection or on the authors of the Constitution, we must take the liberty of supposing, had not its origin with the latter. The objection here is the more extraordinary, as it appears that the language used by the convention is a copy from the articles of Confederation. The objects of the Union among the States, as described in article third, are ``their common defense, security of their liberties, and mutual and general welfare. '' The terms of article eighth are still more identical: ``All charges of war and all other expenses that shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare, and allowed by the United States in Congress, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury,'' etc. A similar language again occurs in article ninth. Construe either of these articles by the rules which would justify the construction put on the new Constitution, and they vest in the existing Congress a power to legislate in all cases whatsoever. But what would have been thought of that assembly, if, attaching themselves to these general expressions, and disregarding the specifications which ascertain and limit their import, they had exercised an unlimited power of providing for the common defense and general welfare? I appeal to the objectors themselves, whether they would in that case have employed the same reasoning in justification of Congress as they now make use of against the convention. How difficult it is for error to escape its own condemnation!

:usflag:
 
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