Most Gazans didn't support Hamas attacking

BartenderElite said:
It's something we do all of the time as humans. I mean, after 9/11, every Muslim was guilty to some Americans.

In this case, demonizing the entire population in Gaza just makes this whole thing neater and easier for everyone. Of course, Israel has to respond, and Hamas has to pay for what they did. But it seems like a LOT of innocent civilians are going to be caught in the crossfire there.
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Such has been the way of the world since the first pre-humans picked up branches and started whopping each other... and then the little ones.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
How lovely.

{Even before his speech, Americans were inclined to believe the worst about Hussein’s regime. In a survey conducted a few weeks prior to the State of the Union, 73% favored military action in Iraq to end Hussein’s rule; just 16% were opposed. More than half (56%) said the U.S. should take action against Iraq “even if it meant U.S. forces might suffer thousands of casualties.”.}


What? You were LYING?

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tells ya...

{That month, Congress overwhelmingly approved a resolution authorizing Bush to use the U.S. armed forces “as he determines to be necessary and appropriate” to defend the security of the United States and enforce UN resolutions on Iraq.}

Well, were you to ever tell the truth about anything, THAT would be a story...

20 Years After Iraq War Began, a Look Back at U.S. Public Opinion | Pew Research Center
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You're just a terrible, knee-jerk poster who doesn't read before shooting off your mouth. You see the name of a liberal and immediately go into a rant that has nothing to do with the post. My exact comment was "I know the US and a big part of the world tried to prevent it, but bush and his partners in crime had their minds made up." Clearly I wasn't speaking only of the US or Congress but that's how your stupid head translated the comment.

Your article reads "A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq" and that's exactly what happened, and why people like me and many others in the world were against the invasion. I could add "Lies" to that sentence also. We knew bush lied, didn't care, and that 4487 American troops died along with countless Iraqis. I bet you supported the invasion too, you seem like the kind of bonehead who would swallow bush's lies without question.
 
christiefan915 said:
You're just a terrible, knee-jerk poster who doesn't read before shooting off your mouth. You see the name of a liberal and immediately go into a rant that has nothing to do with the post. My exact comment was "I know the US and a big part of the world tried to prevent it, but bush and his partners in crime had their minds made up." Clearly I wasn't speaking only of the US or Congress but that's how your stupid head translated the comment.

Your article reads "A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq" and that's exactly what happened, and why people like me and many others in the world were against the invasion. I could add "Lies" to that sentence also. We knew bush lied, didn't care, and that 4487 American troops died along with countless Iraqis. I bet you supported the invasion too, you seem like the kind of bonehead who would swallow bush's lies without question.
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but now you're for ukraine and it's the same old shit.
 
Doc Dutch said:
A valid concern for all involved except the nutjobs. A regional war doesn't help Iran, Saudi Arabi, Israel, Egypt, Jordan or anyone else that is sane.

Saber-rattling to see who blinks first is a common tactic. This is what China does in the Yellow Sea and around Taiwan, but an actual war would be insane....which is why I think Putin is insane.
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Since apparently all MAGATs care about is their wallets, let's consider this. A regional war involving more than just Gaza/Israel would drive up oil prices by a lot. That means you gas-guzzler-driving derps are going to get hurt, too, in the only way you seem to care about.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Since apparently all MAGATs care about is their wallets, let's consider this. A regional war involving more than just Gaza/Israel would drive up oil prices by a lot. That means you gas-guzzler-driving derps are going to get hurt, too, in the only way you seem to care about.
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Agreed on results. No one ever accused the MAGAts of being smart or looking further than their own noses. :)

I'm thinking of buying an electric bicycle...just in case. :)
 
BartenderElite said:
Just saw that the UN is calling evacuation "impossible" for the 'why don't they just leave' crowd.
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My reading of that is "It's impossible for 1.1 Million people to evacuate in a day or two". Notice that the Arab nations aren't offering to send boats.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
Why?

You'll just lie about it - you lie about everything.

{II. The Biden Administration’s policies created strong pull factors that encouraged more illegal immigration, often exacerbating external push factors.Many of these policies were implemented during the first few months of the Biden administration. Important examples include the following:

  • Throughout the 2020 campaign, President Biden promised to extend amnesty to illegal aliens in the United States.
  • On his first day in office, President Biden sent an immigration bill to Congress that included an amnesty program and pledged his support to give illegal aliens a path to citizenship.
  • The Biden administration immediately issued an executive order directing agencies to take steps to preserve the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program.
  • The Biden administration stopped construction of the border wall.
  • The Biden administration expanded the grounds for claiming asylum by reversing legal opinions issued under the Trump Administration.
  • The Biden administration ended the Asylum Cooperative Agreements (ACAs) with Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras which required migrants to apply for asylum in one of the countries through which they traveled (and be denied) as a prerequisite to eligibility for asylum in the United States.[11]
  • The Biden administration issued a policy to exempt unaccompanied minors and family units from expulsion under Title 42, releasing these populations into the U.S.
  • The Biden administration revived the Obama Administration’s policy of allowing immigration judges to administratively close deportation cases.
  • U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) issued policies that make it easier to apply for benefits, including work permits, extended and expanded programs like Temporary Protected Status, eliminated the ability of officers to issue Notices to Appear (NTAs), and reduced screening and vetting in order to process more petitions and applications.
Not surprisingly, soon after Biden’s election, the number of illegal border crossings rose dramatically. Many migrants expressly stated they were entering the United States because they felt President Biden was inviting them. Some even wore t-shirts with the President’s name on them.[12]
Since that time, the number of apprehensions (arrests and expulsions combined) at the Southwest border has risen to unprecedented levels. A total of 2.4 million illegal aliens were apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border in Fiscal Year (FY) 2022. This is a record-breaking annual number that even surpassed the FY 2021 total of more than 1.7 million.[13] In the first seven months of FY 2023 alone, apprehensions have already exceeded 1.4 million and are easily on pace to match the previous years’ grim records. Hundreds of thousands of these individuals were released into the country to await an adjudication on what are often fraudulent asylum claims. Additionally, over a million gotaways completely evaded border inspection and law enforcement.[14] As can clearly be seen from a visualization of apprehensions, the Biden administration’s levels are consistently at an extremely high level that exceeds all previous administrations.}

How Many Illegal Aliens Are in the United States? 2023 Update | FAIRUS.org

Go ahead and lie through your fucking teeth now....
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You just threw out a number and expected people to believe it. Then you tried to cloud the issue by throwing in a whole lot of obfuscation about Biden. Then you finally put a link in tiny print from a far right site that has zero credibility. I wouldn't believe anything you wrote even if it came notarized.

  • Overall, we rate FAIR Questionable based on Extreme Right-Wing Bias as it relates to immigration, promotion of propaganda and conspiracies, as well as having connections to documented Hate Groups.
“The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is a group with one mission: to severely limit immigration into the United States. Although FAIR maintains a veneer of legitimacy that has allowed its principles to testify in Congress and lobby the federal government, this veneer hides much ugliness. Further, FAIR has ties to white supremacist groups...

According to the right-leaning Cato Institute, FAIR has published questionable research that is “fatally flawed.” Cato reports: “Its recent report, ‘The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2017)’ by Matthew O’Brien, Spencer Raley, and Jack Martin, estimates that the net fiscal costs of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is $116 billion. FAIR’s report reaches that conclusion by vastly overstating the costs of illegal immigration, undercounting the tax revenue they generate, inflating the number of illegal immigrants, counting millions of U.S. citizens as illegal immigrants, and by concocting a method of estimating the financial costs that are rejected by all economists who work on this subject."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-federation-for-american-immigration-reform-fair/
 
Doc Dutch said:
Didn't about 20K-30K Gazans work in Israel every day? Hamas seems to have no problem moving around. The Crips, Bloods and Aryan assholes in prisons don't have that much freedom. Ergo, I disagree with calling Gaza a prison camp.

IMO, it's not that they can't leave but that they have no place to go. Not even the Arab countries want them. Same for Iran. If they really gave a shit about the Palestinians, it wouldn't be that difficult for all the Muslim countries to band together and accept refugees. Instead, they refuse the Palestinians refuge.
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It probably doesn't meet the legal definition of a prison, if there is one.

I don't think Gazans can stroll in and out without Israeli authorization, the whole area is cordoned off by razor wire and guard towers, and access to the sea is limited to a narrow coastal zone for Gazan fisherman.


If the question is whether it is as bad as the Vorkuta Gulag camp, it's undoubtedly not. I would rather be restricted to the Gaza strip than to the Vorkuta labor camp.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
To be a Marxist is to be abysmally stupid.

You obviously don't know what "genocide" means.

The people in Gaza are ARABS. There is no "Gaza" race.
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You obviously didn't read any of the posts I was responding to and just want to cover your ignorance by name-calling. I guess you think continually flapping your gums about something makes you an authority. How does one "get rid of Gaza, etc." peacefully, you insufferable moron?

tsuke said:
As H dawg said At this point what does it even matter. Never let a good crisis go to waste. This is the best chance to get rid of Gaza and remove the Palestinians from there while imposing harsher conditions on the other Palestinians. It would be disrespectful to the 100 or so dead Israelis not to use this opportunity to the fullest.
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.
 
ExpressLane said:
Israel is about to remove their Hamas overlords for them. They should be grateful.
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I 100% support Israel targeting Hamas.

But how many Palestinian civilians will die & suffer along the way? I reject the notion that they "have it coming" or that they could have avoided that by leaving or "ousting Hamas."
 
Cypress said:
Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire; Hamas and Hezbollah Unpopular Among Key Arab Publics

According to the latest Washington Institute polling, conducted in July 2023, Hamas’s decision to break the ceasefire was not a popular move. While the majority of Gazans (65%) did think it likely that there would be “a large military conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza” this year, a similar percentage (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel. Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.” Moreover, across the region, Hamas has lost popularity over time among many Arab publics. This decline in popularity may have been one of the motivating factors behind the group’s decision to attack.

In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014.
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It's regrettable that so many have to suffer for the actions of so few.
 
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