Life is Golden
The Sage
That's how I see it. I've always said, "show me an 'Independent' and I'll show you a liar." I think people claim the centrist position out of fear of the radicals on the other side. I say fuck 'em.
"Centrist" Ideas
- Thread starter cawacko
- Start date
Tinkerpeach
Member
That's how I see it. I've always said, "show me an 'Independent' and I'll show you a liar." I think people claim the centrist position out of fear of the radicals on the other side. I say fuck 'em.
That is exactly what it is.
cawacko
Well-known member
There are definitely folks who are proud party members but who can also acknowledge shortcomings, faults or things they don't like. I had more in my head the whole 'pick a side' ride or die attitude that was expressed. That attitude leaves far less room for reflective introspection.
But polls have shown for years that most of the public accepts abortion for some cases as opposed to no abortions ever or no limit on abortions. That is a centrist middle-of-the-road view.
BartenderElite
Verified User
That's how I see it. I've always said, "show me an 'Independent' and I'll show you a liar." I think people claim the centrist position out of fear of the radicals on the other side. I say fuck 'em.
I'm sure someone on either extreme would feel that way. But now everyone is a partisan zealot. Some have positions that are far more nuanced, and many don't align w/ either party.
cawacko
Well-known member
My post is about far more than one individual or one political race. The whole ride or die attitude and if you don't hold it then you are somehow in the 'mushy middle' is not new and that's what I was responding to.
The Stoics remind us that it’s OK to not have an opinion.
Tinkerpeach
Member
Possibly but there are thousands of issues that affect voters, nobody can be centrist on all of them meaning they lean either left or right.
Single issue voters are neither left, right, or centrist so you need to take them all into consideration.
On the abortion issue, the right supports abortion to save the mother's life but that does not make them centrist.
If you support aborting a baby at a certain time that does not make you a centrist.
If you support abortion up to 20 weeks that still makes you lean left even though you've put a limit on it.
I know of no democrats that support abortion up until the time of birth.
It is not left, right, or centrist. It is more like a continuum. More people tend to cluster in the middle on most issues.
They favor keeping social programs as they are currently, expanding to include more programs, or making reductions in spending. More people tend to favor the current status. That makes them centrist in that most people cluster there, not because it is in the middle from a policy viewpoint.
cawacko
Well-known member
That's how I see it. I've always said, "show me an 'Independent' and I'll show you a liar." I think people claim the centrist position out of fear of the radicals on the other side. I say fuck 'em.
But it's also about how does one defines an independent. Take Bernie for instance. Very few will call him a centrist (outside of some old school hardcore communists). There are plenty of independent conservatives and independent liberals. Being an independent doesn't have to mean one is in the middle. At a high level, talking Presidential voting, there were a number of people who voted for both Obama and Trump or Bush and Obama. To many/most/all on this board the thought of doing something like that is anathema to their existence. But yet there are people who did. I think of those types as the folks who often get labeled independent because they can vote either way for any number of reasons.
cawacko
Well-known member
It's not a good argument. One can be on the right politically but it does not mean they agree 100% on every issue other people on the right agree with. Same with those on the left. And same with those whose views swing between the two. Being a 'centrist' does not literally mean taking a center position on every single issue.
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Rant number two of the week! My point is that I'll be happy to go back to my place left-center when this whole mess is over, but right now, we have an 800 pound gorilla in the room, and a whole bunch of people that want it to go nuts. When the gorilla is gone, I'll be less militant. Trying to reason with a cult has proven fruitless. We live in interesting times. I think a LOT of the digging in on the left is a direct result of the attitude from the right. I'm happy to play by Marcus of Queensbury rules right up until the point my opponent kicks me in the nuts. Now that opponent wants to stab me in the heart. All bets are off at that point. I think when we revisit this after 2024, I think there is going to be a lot less digging in. I hope I'm right.
Tinkerpeach
Member
The problem is that the current status is not centrist.
It's left.
This is dictated by the party in control.
cawacko
Well-known member
I'll offer an attempt at a return rant! Part of the reason we are where we are today is due to the frustrations of voters. There can be many diverse reasons for that but I'd argue one is we talk about the importance of our democracy while the two main parties work to exclude others from participating and giving people options. It goes hand-in-hand with the ride or die attitude (although not exclusive to those folks). (ok, young daughter totally interrupted me and I lost my train of thought for the remainder of the rant. I need to work on my skills here, haha.)
Don't know if you read the WSJ but they had an article this weekend on the next Presidential election and interviewed people on the right and left who spoke in apocalyptic terms about what it means. It was up your alley.
Tinkerpeach
Member
You have plenty of third party options, how are they limiting that?
BartenderElite
Verified User
The 2 parties control the process. It's all about the money.
3rd parties aren't given a fair chance.
Agreed, and I was not suggesting otherwise. But, if we place people on a continuum all those on clustering with a plurality of the population are centrists. If there are two large clusters it is bimodal. A person might fall with the plurality on one issue and at one extreme on another.
Another issue is whether we are talking about what position liberals and conservatives take on issues today or whether it is based on principles. Today a conservative would oppose abortion in most circumstances. But, the conservative principle of favoring less government regulation and greater individual liberty would be against government prohibitions on abortion.
I'm rambling.
I disagree. When the right is in office they retain current social programs (Social Security and Medicare) and expand programs like SNAP, welfare, earned income tax credit, TANF, SSI, etc. Republicans sometimes make some "cuts," but the overall programs continue to grow with cuts made to the rate of growth, not actual spending cuts. Republicans even start new temporary social programs like the stimulus, PPP, and increased unemployment benefits when problems arise. Most Americans are supportive of the current policies. So, both parties and the public support the current system more than they would large expansions or cuts.