"Centrist" Ideas

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
The impetus for this post is NiftyNiblick's comment that centrist are fence sitters who need to take a side (and he is far from the only person who holds this view).

To me that implies you state you are a Democrat or Republican and its fvcking ride or die with your party. Trump got crap for his metaphor 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and people would still support me' but he (sadly) should be credited for how raw and accurate it is. Many people feel that way about their political party.

I think that attitude manifests itself in the way we have political debate. A large majority of partisans tend to focus on the other party and all its (perceived or real) wrongs. We talk far less about our party and when we do talk about our own party, it's rare that its in a challenging or negative way. It's like the old black adage 'don't air our dirty laundry in front of white people'. Same for partisans, never say anything negative about our own party when someone else from the other party may be able to hear.

And because of the ride or die attitudes people buy into the hype that we can only have two parties and you must only support one or the other, and therefore nothing changes even though polling show people want change (either more or different options).

I'm going to be a hypocrite here because I'm not really a big fan of the 'learn to think for yourself' line because it often simply means 'anything who thinks for themselves would share my views and vote the way I do' but I do think simply believing everything a political party does because we are supposed to pick a side lends itself to a lack of thinking. It's too easy. One can have diverse viewpoints even if people dismissively try to label them a 'mushy middle'.
 
cawacko said:
The impetus for this post is NiftyNiblick's comment that centrist are fence sitters who need to take a side (and he is far from the only person who holds this view).

To me that implies you state you are a Democrat or Republican and its fvcking ride or die with your party. Trump got crap for his metaphor 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and people would still support me' but he (sadly) should be credited for how raw and accurate it is. Many people feel that way about their political party.

I think that attitude manifests itself in the way we have political debate. A large majority of partisans tend to focus on the other party and all its (perceived or real) wrongs. We talk far less about our party and when we do talk about our own party, it's rare that its in a challenging or negative way. It's like the old black adage 'don't air our dirty laundry in front of white people'. Same for partisans, never say anything negative about our own party when someone else from the other party may be able to hear.

And because of the ride or die attitudes people buy into the hype that we can only have two parties and you must only support one or the other, and therefore nothing changes even though polling show people want change (either more or different options).

I'm going to be a hypocrite here because I'm not really a big fan of the 'learn to think for yourself' line because it often simply means 'anything who thinks for themselves would share my views and vote the way I do' but I do think simply believing everything a political party does because we are supposed to pick a side lends itself to a lack of thinking. It's too easy. One can have diverse viewpoints even if people dismissively try to label them a 'mushy middle'.
Click to expand...

I myself have no problem with centrist idea's. In many ways centrist thinking is usually much more effective. Where the problem comes in from my point of view is that the goal posts keep being moved on what exactly a "centrist" is. It seems to me that the description of centrist idea's has been moved quite a bit to the left. Bring it back to the actual middle and those kind of candidates will get my vote quite a bit of the time.
 
There is no such thing as a centrist.

You would have to have no opinion on any issue to be a centrist.

For example, do you believe in abortion?

Depending on your answer makes you either left or right.
 
I call myself a centrist a lot of the time. It's the label that most 'fits,' though it's still not super accurate.

I think a lot of centrism centers around pragmatism. For example, I'm big on the environment, and want to see America transition fully to alternative energy sources. But I recognize the realities of fossil fuel consumption as of today. I'd support legislation that would give something to both sides - more funding for alternative R&D, while opening up more domestic drilling for the short-term.

But I also just have views that are firmly on either side. I'm pro choice, and also believe in privatizing Social Security. Those are firm positions where there isn't necessarily a middle ground, but one is perceived as liberal & one is conservative.

I hate the whole "sides" thing that you talk about in the OP. I was talking w/ some friends just last week about that - every issue has become that way, even non-political issues. If a meteor was headed to the earth, within a week, there would be 2 distinct sides and no middle ground regarding how serious the threat was, and how we should handle it. COVID was like that.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
There is no such thing as a centrist.

You would have to have no opinion on any issue to be a centrist.

For example, do you believe in abortion?

Depending on your answer makes you either left or right.
Click to expand...

It isnt quite like that though. life isnt just black and white,...there is a whole big grey area out there. For instance in regards to my views...............I am strongly against abortion, I am for a strong national defense, I am FOR smaller govt, less spending and lower taxes. I am AGAINST using our military as much as we do by being involved in foreign entanglements. On the other hand I absolutely think something needs to be done on healthcare,....what exactly I dont know. But something does need to be done. In no way am I just all right wing all the time.
 
Stone said:
I myself have no problem with centrist idea's. In many ways centrist thinking is usually much more effective. Where the problem comes in from my point of view is that the goal posts keep being moved on what exactly a "centrist" is. It seems to me that the description of centrist idea's has been moved quite a bit to the left. Bring it back to the actual middle and those kind of candidates will get my vote quite a bit of the time.
Click to expand...

Just my opinion but I don't really think there's a set definition of a 'centrist'. I have in mind folks who openly talk about things they don't like that both Republicans and Democrats do and although they vote they aren't the 'it's my political party or get out' types. (There are also people who vote for Republicans but think the party is too far to the left and those who vote for Democrats who think the party is too far to the right - we're obviously not talking about them.)

So I don't think it's a label people go around wearing "hey everyone, I'm a centrist" but it's more about their beliefs don't perfectly align with either party and they get turned off by the excesses of each party. (if that makes sense)

Edit: I left out thoughts on issues. I don't think every issue has a 'centrist' position but even on hot button issues there often can be some sort of middle ground. And to be a 'centrist' doesn't mean one has to be a 'centrist' on all issues.
 
Stone said:
It isnt quite like that though. life isnt just black and white,...there is a whole big grey area out there. For instance in regards to my views...............I am strongly against abortion, I am for a strong national defense, I am FOR smaller govt, less spending and lower taxes. I am AGAINST using our military as much as we do by being involved in foreign entanglements. On the other hand I absolutely think something needs to be done on healthcare,....what exactly I dont know. But something does need to be done. In no way am I just all right wing all the time.
Click to expand...

Republicans aren't against healthcare reform.
 
BartenderElite said:
I call myself a centrist a lot of the time. It's the label that most 'fits,' though it's still not super accurate.

I think a lot of centrism centers around pragmatism. For example, I'm big on the environment, and want to see America transition fully to alternative energy sources. But I recognize the realities of fossil fuel consumption as of today. I'd support legislation that would give something to both sides - more funding for alternative R&D, while opening up more domestic drilling for the short-term.

But I also just have views that are firmly on either side. I'm pro choice, and also believe in privatizing Social Security. Those are firm positions where there isn't necessarily a middle ground, but one is perceived as liberal & one is conservative.

I hate the whole "sides" thing that you talk about in the OP. I was talking w/ some friends just last week about that - every issue has become that way, even non-political issues. If a meteor was headed to the earth, within a week, there would be 2 distinct sides and no middle ground regarding how serious the threat was, and how we should handle it. COVID was like that.
Click to expand...

I'm going off on a tangent here but your comment reminded me of what I've heard from candidates in San Francisco (although I'm sure its not unique to here) and that's someone running as a 'pragmatic progressive' and willing to get things done - as opposed to those who are more ideologues.

You're right, not everyone fits in a neat little box. Florida is a red state but voted to increase the minimum wage. California is a blue state that twice voted to end affirmative action. But people treat political parties like they are family members. Many people don't play when it comes to family and will stand up and fight anyone who they think is disrespecting their family - no matter how slight it may be. Political parties have become so personal to some, and as such an extension of themselves, that if you say something negative about that party you are essentially insulting that individual personally.

So the same way we may overlook some transgressions by family members, because they are family, we do the same with our political parties and individual politicians.
 
cawacko said:
The impetus for this post is NiftyNiblick's comment that centrist are fence sitters who need to take a side (and he is far from the only person who holds this view).

To me that implies you state you are a Democrat or Republican and its fvcking ride or die with your party. Trump got crap for his metaphor 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and people would still support me' but he (sadly) should be credited for how raw and accurate it is. Many people feel that way about their political party.

I think that attitude manifests itself in the way we have political debate. A large majority of partisans tend to focus on the other party and all its (perceived or real) wrongs. We talk far less about our party and when we do talk about our own party, it's rare that its in a challenging or negative way. It's like the old black adage 'don't air our dirty laundry in front of white people'. Same for partisans, never say anything negative about our own party when someone else from the other party may be able to hear.

And because of the ride or die attitudes people buy into the hype that we can only have two parties and you must only support one or the other, and therefore nothing changes even though polling show people want change (either more or different options).

I'm going to be a hypocrite here because I'm not really a big fan of the 'learn to think for yourself' line because it often simply means 'anything who thinks for themselves would share my views and vote the way I do' but I do think simply believing everything a political party does because we are supposed to pick a side lends itself to a lack of thinking. It's too easy. One can have diverse viewpoints even if people dismissively try to label them a 'mushy middle'.
Click to expand...

this is a false premise. Sorry, but that is just not true. Trump is a cult leader. I know of no one else in politics that could make that statement.
 
I'm a centrist.....

prove-me-wrong-matty-matheson.gif
 
Tinkerpeach said:
There is no such thing as a centrist.

You would have to have no opinion on any issue to be a centrist.

For example, do you believe in abortion?

Depending on your answer makes you either left or right.
Click to expand...

Not true. A centrist would be Solomonic about it. That is, a centrist would say that abortion should be allowed but with specific limits on it. The debate would be about those limits. Someone on the Left would argue for abortion on demand, period. Someone on the Right would argue, that abortion should be entirely banned.
 
Concart said:
this is a false premise. Sorry, but that is just not true. Trump is a cult leader. I know of no one else in politics that could make that statement.
Click to expand...

The metaphor seems extreme but I still think it accurately sums up how some people feel about their political party. We've heard more than a few times people say 'I'd rather die than vote for someone from that (pick of the two) party('s). If that isn't ride or die then I don't know what is.
 
cawacko said:
The impetus for this post is NiftyNiblick's comment that centrist are fence sitters who need to take a side (and he is far from the only person who holds this view).

To me that implies you state you are a Democrat or Republican and its fvcking ride or die with your party. Trump got crap for his metaphor 'I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and people would still support me' but he (sadly) should be credited for how raw and accurate it is. Many people feel that way about their political party.

I think that attitude manifests itself in the way we have political debate. A large majority of partisans tend to focus on the other party and all its (perceived or real) wrongs. We talk far less about our party and when we do talk about our own party, it's rare that its in a challenging or negative way. It's like the old black adage 'don't air our dirty laundry in front of white people'. Same for partisans, never say anything negative about our own party when someone else from the other party may be able to hear.

And because of the ride or die attitudes people buy into the hype that we can only have two parties and you must only support one or the other, and therefore nothing changes even though polling show people want change (either more or different options).

I'm going to be a hypocrite here because I'm not really a big fan of the 'learn to think for yourself' line because it often simply means 'anything who thinks for themselves would share my views and vote the way I do' but I do think simply believing everything a political party does because we are supposed to pick a side lends itself to a lack of thinking. It's too easy. One can have diverse viewpoints even if people dismissively try to label them a 'mushy middle'.
Click to expand...

There’s lots I don’t like about the Democratic Party.

It’s moved a little too far to the left for me. But it is far superior to where the Republicans are right now.

I don’t want Biden to run again. He’s lost more than just a step or two. But he is far superior to Trump.

I didn’t like Obama’s surge decision.

I don’t like Biden’s cluster bomb decision.

I don’t care for VP Harris.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Not true. A centrist would be Solomonic about it. That is, a centrist would say that abortion should be allowed but with specific limits on it. The debate would be about those limits. Someone on the Left would argue for abortion on demand, period. Someone on the Right would argue, that abortion should be entirely banned.
Click to expand...

If you were to talk about a middle or 'centrist' position on abortion this would be my exact thoughts.
 
cawacko said:
The metaphor seems extreme but I still think it accurately sums up how some people feel about their political party. We've heard more than a few times people say 'I'd rather die than vote for someone from that (pick of the two) party('s). If that isn't ride or die then I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

There is no equivalency here. You can claim that's a partisan take, but it isn't. The likely nominee for the Republicans is a man who has broken numerous laws, put our national security in jeopardy and tried to overturn an election. And yet he is supported by the leadership of that party. That is not true for the Democratic party. Period, full stop. That makes the Republican party an existential threat to democracy. So yes, I would not vote for anyone who through their actions or their silence does not condemn Trump and say he is unfit for office. That is a deal breaker for me, so it seems unlikely I could find a reason to vote for a Republican for any office. But this isn't some 'both sides do it'. Only one side is actively trying to find ways to stay in power by suppressing voting or overriding the will of the people. The centrists who used to Be Republicans aren't any longer. Toi sum it up... the leader of one of the two major parties is a criminal and a traitor unfit to hold any office EVER. Any politician who does not actively state that is a gutless coward and deserves to lose their election. I am not ride or die Democrat, I've voted for many independents and Republicans. But this is different. We have never faced this threat before, and instead of bickering, those of use who believe in democracy need to work together to remove the cancer in the body politic. There are no gray lines here.
 
Concart said:
There is no equivalency here. You can claim that's a partisan take, but it isn't. The likely nominee for the Republicans is a man who has broken numerous laws, put our national security in jeopardy and tried to overturn an election. And yet he is supported by the leadership of that party. That is not true for the Democratic party. Period, full stop. That makes the Republican party an existential threat to democracy. So yes, I would not vote for anyone who through their actions or their silence does not condemn Trump and say he is unfit for office. That is a deal breaker for me, so it seems unlikely I could find a reason to vote for a Republican for any office. But this isn't some 'both sides do it'. Only one side is actively trying to find ways to stay in power by suppressing voting or overriding the will of the people. The centrists who used to Be Republicans aren't any longer. Toi sum it up... the leader of one of the two major parties is a criminal and a traitor unfit to hold any office EVER. Any politician who does not actively state that is a gutless coward and deserves to lose their election. I am not ride or die Democrat, I've voted for many independents and Republicans. But this is different. We have never faced this threat before, and instead of bickering, those of use who believe in democracy need to work together to remove the cancer in the body politic. There are no gray lines here.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There are many shades of gray on a lot of issues.

Trump is not one of those. Not in 2016. Not in 2020. Not ever. And whoever continues to support and defend him, politician or not, has ZERO credibility in my eyes. One of the few clearly black and white issues for me.
 
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