Colleges Should Be More Than Just Vocational Schools

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BidenPresident

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America’s higher education system was founded on the liberal arts and the widespread understanding that mass access to art, culture, language and science were essential if America was to thrive.

In 1947, a presidential commission bemoaned an education system where a student “may have gained technical or professional training” while being “only incidentally, if at all, made ready for performing his duties as a man, a parent and a citizen.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/humanities-liberal-arts-policy-higher-education.html
 
There is still value in our health professionals knowing something about literature, our financial professionals knowing something about history and our political leaders knowing something about ethics.

But as that funding is dismantled, the American higher education system is returning to what it once was: liberal arts finishing schools for the wealthy and privileged, and vocational training for the rest.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/humanities-liberal-arts-policy-higher-education.html
 
BidenPresident said:
America’s higher education system was founded on the liberal arts and the widespread understanding that mass access to art, culture, language and science were essential if America was to thrive.

In 1947, a presidential commission bemoaned an education system where a student “may have gained technical or professional training” while being “only incidentally, if at all, made ready for performing his duties as a man, a parent and a citizen.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/humanities-liberal-arts-policy-higher-education.html
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How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
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I doubt you even graduated high school.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
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Everybody could use an education focusing on history, art, and literature. College was intended to round a person put introducing them to other thoughts and people. It was once intended to make gentlemen out of people. Now it is seen as a glorified apprenticeship.
There are no useless degrees. College can change people.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
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Even though I got a STEM degree, I was still required to take classes in English, government and civics, and several electives in the humanities to get my degree. And that's how it should be
 
Nordberg said:
Everybody could use an education focusing on history, art, and literature. College was intended to round a person put introducing them to other thoughts and people. It was once intended to make gentlemen out of people. Now it is seen as a glorified apprenticeship.
There are no useless degrees. College can change people.
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Einstein was clear that studying history and philosopy not only made him a better citizen, but made him a more creative-thinking scientist.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
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Disagree. I want my barista well educated .
 
T. A. Gardner said:
How many people--what proportion of the population-- really needs a liberal arts degree? Today, in the US, we have a glut of lawyers we don't need, lots of people with some useless liberal arts degree driving an Uber or managing a Burger King, while there is a massive shortage of skilled tradespeople across the board.

Seems to me we need lots more people with technical or trades training and degrees and a whole lot less of ones with useless degrees in womyn's studies, art history, political science, and the like.
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College students should be required to present a business plan on where they intend to find a job what the odds of them finding that job and how long and how large a payment would be for them to pay off their college loan BEFORE they receive a federally insured college loan. Every college should be required to teach a 2hr class for each freshman, sophomore, junior and senior year on college loans and grants and scholarships.

BTW I'd love to watch a typical liberal arts student that looks down their noses at tradesmen try to figure out how to wire their own house or frame it. :laugh:

My son is a fireman and his best friend is a Mechanical engineer. They went to high school together. My son STILL makes more money and has worked in his field for 3 more years and has ZERO college debt.
 
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ExpressLane said:
College students should be required to present a business plan on where they intend to find a job what the odds of them finding that job and how long and how large a payment would be for them to pay off their college loan BEFORE they receive a federally insured college loan. Every college should be required to teach a 2hr class for each freshman, sophomore, junior and senior year on college loans and grants and scholarships.
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I think that depends. I used the GI Bill to pay for college in exchange for military service as part of a contract. For students wanting to go to college on a credit card, I'd agree. They need to show reasonable means to pay back the loan.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I think that depends. I used the GI Bill to pay for college in exchange for military service as part of a contract. For students wanting to go to college on a credit card, I'd agree. They need to show reasonable means to pay back the loan.
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So you lived off welfare and made taxpayers pay for your education.
 
ExpressLane said:
College students should be required to present a business plan on where they intend to find a job what the odds of them finding that job and how long and how large a payment would be for them to pay off their college loan BEFORE
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THIS. No different than any other loan.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I think that depends. I used the GI Bill to pay for college in exchange for military service as part of a contract. For students wanting to go to college on a credit card, I'd agree. They need to show reasonable means to pay back the loan.
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And for self pay I would agree.
 
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