Into the Night
Verified User
A valiant attempt by floridafan to get the conversation back on track (we do tend to wander, don't we!
).
Pulic: TESLA WAS NAMED THE CHEAPEST LUXURY CAR BRAND TO MAINTAIN. MAGA WETS PANTIES.
- Thread starter Into the Night
- Start date
A valiant attempt by floridafan to get the conversation back on track (we do tend to wander, don't we!
).
Into the Night
Verified User
Okay. Joe is losing it here. He assumes he 'won' though he didn't, starts pulling out Nights Law again, and now reverts to calling people a 'troll' because they disagreed with him.
Transmissions, regardless of their complexity, rarely give trouble. Joe is STILL trying to make this strawman argument.
Into the Night
Verified User
Nothing like the pat one the back society to use as a 'proof'.
Night's Law strikes again. He doesn't even know what 'MAGA' means!
Into the Night
Verified User
Yet another attempt by floridafan to point out what Joe said. As a response, Joe is now going for censorship yet again, using an argument of the Stick fallacy and insult fallacies.
At this point, Joe is no longer discussing the advantages or disadvantages of EVs vs gasoline cars. Like any fundamentalist religious fanatic, he is in full censorship mode. He must 'put away' the 'evil'. Poor ole' Joe has not yet realized that censorship doesn't work!
Into the Night
Verified User
Joe has now 'put away' the 'evil' and has gone back to chanting. He apparently never learned that Li-ion batteries provide 3.158A/hr of capacity per mole of lithium. That's just electrochemistry, folks. That number is always the same for Li-ion batteries and cannot change.
Into the Night
Verified User
Maybe he's thinking that some day the batteries will be recyclable and cheaper or something... Not happing with the increased use of fire retardant foam potting in them any time soon...
That's for damn sure.
This potting is put on there to try to physically 'tie down' the cells so they don't move with the vibration and motion of the car. This actually hurts cooling ability of these batteries as well, since the foam potting acts as a thermal insulator. These batteries are wholly dependent on the liquid coolant now.
In the end, it makes no difference in a minor accident in protecting the packs from damage. It DOES make for more landfill and expense though, since the battery pack must be replaced in such an accident. Since insurance companies just total the car instead, the potting compound is just so much more car junk.
Junkyards don't like EVs. Damaged batteries can spontaneously combust, and you have a junkyard fire!
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
Tesla Reports Record Revenue for 2022, With 1.31 Million EVs Sold
Tesla sold more cars and made more money than ever, despite its average transaction price falling. The automaker now turns its attention to software to drive profit.
Tesla's finished 2022 on a tear, bolstered by recent price reductions for its stable of electric sedans and SUVs. The automaker's full-year 2022 earnings statement, released at the close of market Wednesday, revealed it delivered 405,278 electric cars in the fourth quarter -- up from 343,830 deliveries in the previous quarter. This brings Tesla's total deliveries in 2022 to 1.31 million cars, which is a record high for the brand and 40% growth year-over-year, but also just short of its own goal of 1.4 million deliveries.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Red herring fallacy. What does that have to do with Tesla's shitty quality and unreliability?
Into the Night
Verified User
Tesla cars are known for the sparse interiors and cheap fastener problems with them. It's worse than a lot of Ford, GM, or Chrysler gasoline cars.
Most cars are using plastic interiors now, since they can be attractively arranged to cover the frame and metal body parts, but also because they ARE cheap to mold and color. Producing an attractive interior at a low cost, they aren't that bad, PROVIDED they are properly fastened. Tesla has real problems with this.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
That's for damn sure.
This potting is put on there to try to physically 'tie down' the cells so they don't move with the vibration and motion of the car. This actually hurts cooling ability of these batteries as well, since the foam potting acts as a thermal insulator. These batteries are wholly dependent on the liquid coolant now.
In the end, it makes no difference in a minor accident in protecting the packs from damage. It DOES make for more landfill and expense though, since the battery pack must be replaced in such an accident. Since insurance companies just total the car instead, the potting compound is just so much more car junk.
Junkyards don't like EVs. Damaged batteries can spontaneously combust, and you have a junkyard fire!
The batteries were always dependent on liquid cooling. What the foam does is provide an additional layer of fire suppression if the pack catches fire. As a closed cell foam, it also will provide better temperature control overall. I'm not going to fault Tesla for trying to make their battery packs safer. I will fault them for making them unrecyclable.
Into the Night
Verified User
Nothing, obviously. It has nothing to do with the number of EVs on the road either (less than 1%). He's simply chanting the marketing BS again.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
But Tesla sells at luxury car prices. Delivering the interior of a low-end car like a Ford EcoSport, or a Chevy Malibu, isn't what you pay $50 or $60,000 for. You pay $25,000 for that cheap crap.
Into the Night
Verified User
Yes they were. Before the foam potting, however, the batteries were also air cooled (using undercarriage air). Cooling these suckers is important, as thermal runaway is a real problem with these batteries.
The foam does nothing in case of a fire. It's just more fuel to burn (and produces a nasty soot in the process!).
The foam does marginally make the battery packs safer by providing a cushioning effect similar to the packing material in boxes that are shipped.
It does not protect the battery back in case of a minor accident.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
The foam is engineered as a fire retardant.
Tesla Model 3 Battery Cells & Pack Resist Fire In Crash
https://insideevs.com/news/363109/t...,battery pack and destroyed some of the cells.
I can understand why Tesla chose this route. Foam potting the battery pack is quick and cheap. It provides an additional level of fire suppression safety. Recycling isn't high on their list of priorities so it doesn't matter if the pack is totally unrecyclable.
Into the Night
Verified User
A fair question. Frankly, I've found the Ford EcoSport or Chevy Malibu to have an interior that is better fastened and just better built. Like I said, most every car (including luxury cars) have a lot of plastic in the interior. It's not a problem, so long as it is properly fit and fastened. Tesla is really sloppy at this, and their fastening methods are poor.
Indeed, plastic itself is absolutely necessary for any car, or for most any electrical wiring (Romex and wire insulation is all plastic now). There are plastic utility boxes commonly used in new construction. Lighting fixtures are often LEDs now, using plastics.
Even the computer you are using right now couldn't exist without plastic.
Most every sensor on a car has a plastic housing, and even the computer that runs the car would be useless without plastic.
That 'cheap crap' make it all work.
The sustainability of EV's to include managing the entire life cycle of an EV has to be in the mix of cares for apostles of EV's.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
For them, only when it meshes with their political goals. Otherwise, it doesn't matter, and they could give a flying fuck.
I have seen some comments that indicate that Tesla is working on this. There has been so much "The Planet is Dying! Humans caused it!" that they can no longer avoid optimizing the sustainability of EV's.
A little side story: A daughter got us a three month subscription to Curd Box...which is cheese and stuff to go with it. Even I who does not go much in for planet health alarmism am put off by the packaging to payload ratio.....this is just stupid...all of this waste for so little cheese.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
Maybe people don't think Tesla is as shitty or unreliable as you do. Why does that trigger you so badly?