"I love the poorly educated"

[cawacko]

That's an excellent observation.

The grievances that Trump speaks to in his followers are partly created by that gap - but he's not going to address that. Republicans, in general, do not. Democrats do only marginally.

It's weird. If there is one thing we can all count on, it's that the gap between the rich & poor will continue to grow, year in & year out. It's not really a system most people should support.

So that leads to the question of what system should people support? Is there an existing model the U.S. should replicate? Is someone in 2023 going to create/invent an entirely new economic system that we heretofore have not thought of?

We obviously have inequality issues in America. We are also the richest country on the planet so it would seem we are doing something right that others aren't.

 

[BartenderElite]

So that leads to the question of what system should people support? Is there an existing model the U.S. should replicate? Is someone in 2023 going to create/invent an entirely new economic system that we heretofore have not thought of?

We obviously have inequality issues in America. We are also the richest country on the planet so it would seem we are doing something right that others aren't.

The richest country that also has people starving, homeless, struggling for good healthcare, et al.

We're a country becoming more increasingly defined by extremes. I'm a capitalist, and I love capitalism in general - but this is a conundrum I simply can't get past. It is not sustainable, as we currently practice it. It doesn't take a math wizard to see where we're going to end up if the trends continue, and there is no reason to believe they won't. A few thousand who are super rich, and many millions of poor and middle class.

It's the kind of stuff that inspired the French Revolution and other rebellions throughout history. Ultimately, it doesn't really make sense for most in this country to support a system that greatly benefits a small few, and leaves the rest to vie for the bigger scraps over the smaller scraps. Everyone likes to believe they could become a billionaire, which is why the masses currently allow for it.

 

[QP!]

The stress and pressure of the average citizen is due to an incredible wealth gap. The wealthy are turning America into a plutocracy by gathering enormous amounts of money. The wealth gap is worse than the Gilded Age and getting worse every day. Money=power. We are realizing we are pawns in a huge game. The price we pay is security. Knowing you are powerless makes you seek a person who has the desire to change everything. Maybe you will be better off. In walks Trump , blustering about how only he can change and solve the problems.
Trump is not the solution. What he wants is to accelerate the power of the wealthy takeover. He thinks he is one of them.

Sure. Good points all and the growing Oligarchy class is putting on a master class in how to distract the masses while they loot the Treasury. Bail outs and welfare for Wall Street, 2008. Bail outs and welfare for Corporate america, Pandemic with loan forgiveness. Bail out for various banks currently due to Twitter fear campaign pushed by Peter Thiel and others to save their money.

Meanwhile 'do not dare forgive student loan as that is welfare' and .... 'WHATABOUT TRANS PEOPLE'.


And Trump and Republican derps eat that crap up. As they are robbed by Trump, literally, they direct all that righteous anger and trans people, who many of them will never know or interact with a single one in their lives.

 

[QP!]

So that leads to the question of what system should people support? Is there an existing model the U.S. should replicate? Is someone in 2023 going to create/invent an entirely new economic system that we heretofore have not thought of?

We obviously have inequality issues in America. We are also the richest country on the planet so it would seem we are doing something right that others aren't.

that is easy.

Replicate the US system post WW2. Progressive taxation as wealth increases (rich and corporations), recognizing the rich/Corps utilize more resources (private and gov't) than others. Massive investments in infrastructure which makes Corporations more cost effective and leads to corporate growth and more taxes.

Post WW2 the US, including the rich, enjoyed the biggest wealth growth the world has known. Rising tides raised all ships.

But there is always pressure from an Oligarch class, that says 'Yeah but i could be even richer, short term, if we did not invest in America and you just let me keep all that money. And since i ma globalist and can anywhere, I can just leave once we make the US uncompetitive'.


That is the entire game. Just as Putin did in Russia. Russia had a real chance after the Wall fell to be centre of Europe, bridging Europe and Asia. They could have fostered a world leading tech community, similar to how Ireland built theres and been a great place for Asian Techies, who do not want to travel to the West, to get work nearer to home. But Putin and his Oligarchs took so much money out of the economy, it lagged and became a laughing stock. they could not help their greed because even as they got multiples more than they could spend in 10 lifetimes they just wanted more and more.

That is what Trump supporters are trying to lead America too.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I said its a Christian thing to say because God loves everyone. God said give me your sick, your poor etc. As I understand God he didn't say 'I like all people but I really prefer those who went to elite boarding schools then the Ivy League' etc. I also said Trump didn't say it for Christian reasons.

It's just a reality that in partisan politics if you don't like someone, a political party etc. you're probably not going to like whatever they say. Doesn't matter what it is. To me, that's exactly it here. That years later, people who historically have claimed to be supporters of the poorly educated are still upset because one person they don't like said he loves the poorly educated just drives that point home.

Except we are not upset. I merely pointed out that he said it in a mocking way, making fun of his gullible base. As Christie also pointed out, Trump has nothing to do with "lower class" ppl and in fact despises them.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Excellent post.

And they can be easily distracted.

Polling shows that Dem voters and Republican voters overwhelming support the same core things, in terms of health care reform, seeing corporations and the rich pay their fair share, Medicare and SS, etc, etc. People are immensely resentful and angry at how the systems of government are forgetting them.

Those should be the issues that get Politicians elected or booted from office and the Republicans know that. They know if the people are not distracted to vote on culture war items they may unite and vote for real change.

That is why Trump and so many Republicans echo a version of the Bernie Sanders message that they represent the forgotten every man. But the Republicans do it so they can then loot the treasury and give massive tax cuts to the rich and corporations while screaming "WHATABOUT TRANS PEOPLE".

And stupid people, like the Trump supporters and republican voters here are dumb and as such they fall for it. They empower the very people stealing from them as they are the only ones going to protect them from a burlesque show in a place they will never visit.

Good post. This attitude also explains why the (R)s will not do a single thing to fix illegal immigration. If it's fixed, there goes a key issue that they can wave in front of their voters. They screwed the pooch with abortion, so other than immigration and inflation -- neither of which they really want to address -- all they got left is the stupid faux cultural "problems." Notice how they don't even bother formulating a party platform or set of beliefs and positions?

 

[QP!]

BTW that is one of the main reasons Putin had to attack Ukraine.

Ukraine had a ton of problems with corruption, like Russia, when Putin was in charge with his proxy Oligarchs. In the years after Putin Oligarchs were kicked out Ukraine still had big corruption problems but it was getting cleaned up and thus you saw Ukraine GDP, small, but on a serious growth uptick.

That last segment of straight up growth was when Putin Oligarchs were kicked out.

Foreign Investment Capital was just to soar into Ukraine, especially cities like Odessa and as such the GDP was going to only get better and better.

Meanwhile in Russia, it was a shithole. So if Putin let Ukraine soar, it would tell all the Russian people that the problem was Putin. that as soon as Ukraine got rid of Putin things soared. All of Putins, 'its the West' or other excuses as to why Russia was a shithole would fall away as too many Russians go to Ukraine or know ukrainians and would hear how good things were once Putin was ousted.

So he either had to take Ukraine over, and steal their wealth, or break the country and set them back a decade or so, in terms of GDP

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

That's an excellent observation.

The grievances that Trump speaks to in his followers are partly created by that gap - but he's not going to address that. Republicans, in general, do not. Democrats do only marginally.

It's weird. If there is one thing we can all count on, it's that the gap between the rich & poor will continue to grow, year in & year out. It's not really a system most people should support.

The Road to Perdition Is Patrician


Most plutocratic wealth is inherited or achieved by bootlicking the HeirHeads (like Cheney and Greenspan). It doesn't matter if Trump, Gates, Turner, et al., magnified what Daddy set them up for; being placed halfway to the finish line makes it easy to finish far ahead of the pack. The "fatherest," control the economic playing field, making sure that the naturally talented become either depressed or exhausted. The fittest finish far from where they should, so it is a race to the bottom.

Nowhere on the specious spectrum is a group that concentrates on eliminating this destructive advantage. So like all other collapsed civilizations, we're headed for a fall because of a cancer that is ignored by all.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Sure. Good points all and the growing Oligarchy class is putting on a master class in how to distract the masses while they loot the Treasury. Bail outs and welfare for Wall Street, 2008. Bail outs and welfare for Corporate america, Pandemic with loan forgiveness. Bail out for various banks currently due to Twitter fear campaign pushed by Peter Thiel and others to save their money.

Meanwhile 'do not dare forgive student loan as that is welfare' and .... 'WHATABOUT TRANS PEOPLE'.


And Trump and Republican derps eat that crap up. As they are robbed by Trump, literally, they direct all that righteous anger and trans people, who many of them will never know or interact with a single one in their lives.

The Prep School Is the Cradle of Both Laissez-Faire and Statism

 

[cawacko]

Except we are not upset. I merely pointed out that he said it in a mocking way, making fun of his gullible base. As Christie also pointed out, Trump has nothing to do with "lower class" ppl and in fact despises them.

This was in the OP:

'But in GENERAL, it's not the best thing when a candidate relies on poorly educated people to maintain his or her popularity.'

That doesn't sound like mocking, that sounds like upset (to me at least). That sounds very similar to comments people made to justify only white male landholders to vote and to justify women not voting and to justify minorities not voting.

It's basically saying we can't trust poor and non college educated people with responsibility or power.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's the kind of stuff that inspired the French Revolution and other rebellions throughout history. Ultimately, it doesn't really make sense for most in this country to support a system that greatly benefits a small few, and leaves the rest to vie for the bigger scraps over the smaller scraps.

The Reign of Terror Was the Hereditary 2% (Lawyers) Ordering the 98% to Kill Off the Hereditary 1%

 

[Yakuda]

Sure. Good points all and the growing Oligarchy class is putting on a master class in how to distract the masses while they loot the Treasury. Bail outs and welfare for Wall Street, 2008. Bail outs and welfare for Corporate america, Pandemic with loan forgiveness. Bail out for various banks currently due to Twitter fear campaign pushed by Peter Thiel and others to save their money.

Meanwhile 'do not dare forgive student loan as that is welfare' and .... 'WHATABOUT TRANS PEOPLE'.


And Trump and Republican derps eat that crap up. As they are robbed by Trump, literally, they direct all that righteous anger and trans people, who many of them will never know or interact with a single one in their lives.

If you could hold off being a hysterical drama queen for a second, try to make a case for why people who voluntarily entered in a contract to receive money, who agreed to pay it back and received a benefit from having that money should be allowed to breech that contract and cause the other party damage.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

That's an excellent observation.

The grievances that Trump speaks to in his followers are partly created by that gap - but he's not going to address that. Republicans, in general, do not. Democrats do only marginally.

It's weird. If there is one thing we can all count on, it's that the gap between the rich & poor will continue to grow, year in & year out. It's not really a system most people should support.

The (R)s have gotten their voters convinced that if we raise taxes on the wealthy, they'll stop "creating jobs" as if they do that now. They've also been conditioned to believe that all extra tax revenues collected will go to lazy slackers who refuse to work.

 

[cawacko]

that is easy.

Replicate the US system post WW2. Progressive taxation as wealth increases (rich and corporations), recognizing the rich/Corps utilize more resources (private and gov't) than others. Massive investments in infrastructure which makes Corporations more cost effective and leads to corporate growth and more taxes.

Post WW2 the US, including the rich, enjoyed the biggest wealth growth the world has known. Rising tides raised all ships.

But there is always pressure from an Oligarch class, that says 'Yeah but i could be even richer, short term, if we did not invest in America and you just let me keep all that money. And since i ma globalist and can anywhere, I can just leave once we make the US uncompetitive'.


That is the entire game. Just as Putin did in Russia. Russia had a real chance after the Wall fell to be centre of Europe, bridging Europe and Asia. They could have fostered a world leading tech community, similar to how Ireland built theres and been a great place for Asian Techies, who do not want to travel to the West, to get work nearer to home. But Putin and his Oligarchs took so much money out of the economy, it lagged and became a laughing stock. they could not help their greed because even as they got multiples more than they could spend in 10 lifetimes they just wanted more and more.

That is what Trump supporters are trying to lead America too.

Post WWII much of Europe and Japan laid in rubble, Russia blocked itself off from much of the world and China was an *ss backwards country. I don't know how easy it is to recreate those geo-political conditions.

Post WWII we didn't have a global economy like today nor did we have anywhere near the technology we do today. Again, not real easy to roll all that back.

I'm open to hearing how it could be done however.

 

[QP!]

If you could hold off being a hysterical drama queen for a second, try to make a case for why people who voluntarily entered in a contract to receive money, who agreed to pay it back and received a benefit from having that money should be allowed to breech that contract and cause the other party damage.

Are you talking about the forgiveness of all the ~$800B in PPP loans given to corporations that occured in 2 years?

Or the $379B for student loans that would be realized over 30 years?

Not sure which one contract you care complaining about but if you are Trump derp, republican, I know which one you WON'T care about.

STOP THE STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS THAT IS SOCIALISM AND UNFAIR!

Herp derp, herp derp, says all the Trump/republican voters.

 

[Yakuda]

Are you talking about the forgiveness of all the ~$800B in PPP loans given to corporations that occured in 2 years?

Or the $379B for student loans that would be realized over 30 years?

Not sure which one contract you care complaining about but if you are Trump derp, republican, I know which one you WON'T care about.

STOP THE STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS THAT IS SOCIALISM AND UNFAIR!

Herp derp, herp derp, says all the Trump/republican voters.

I guess you can't stop being a drama queen for even a second. Let's try AGAIN, I'm asking you to make a case for why someone who entered voluntarily into a loan, agreed to pay jt back and received a benefit from it should be free from the obligation of paying it back.

BTW because you're apparently a retarded drama queen, from YOUR post

"Meanwhile 'do not dare forgive student loan ..."

 

[Yakuda]

I guess you can't stop being a drama queen for even a second. Let's try AGAIN, I'm asking you to make a case for why someone who entered voluntarily into a loan, agreed to pay jt back and received a benefit from it should be free from the obligation of paying it back.

Deleted

 

[Cypress]

What makes you think we're upset when we bring it up? He meant it as mockery, which almost everyone but the targets seem to understand. We also mean it as mockery when we bring it up. In another post you said it was a Christian thing to say. It absolutely is not Christian at all. It's just more of #TRE45ON's usual cruelty. He's gloating that he can put one over on them because they're not educated or smart.

Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and Bill Clinton actually grew up in modest conditions and can relate to the existence of working people in a way that self absorbed trust fund baby Trump can't.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

Look at this forum. Without doubt, Trump supporters are the dumbest people on the forum. Many of them have not even mastered basic grammar.

Just look at the low-class riff-raff at the Capitol riot on Jan 6th and you'll have your proof.
MAGA morons don't want a president. They want someone to worship.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

This was in the OP:

'But in GENERAL, it's not the best thing when a candidate relies on poorly educated people to maintain his or her popularity.'

That doesn't sound like mocking, that sounds like upset (to me at least). That sounds very similar to comments people made to justify only white male landholders to vote and to justify women not voting and to justify minorities not voting.

It's basically saying we can't trust poor and non college educated people with responsibility or power.

Evidently, from what we've seen of #TRE45ON's base, we are wise to be cautious and distrustful, eh? BTW, how many times have you seen some RWer here mock low income urban voters for allegedly voting for "free stuff"?