In blow to freedom, Democrats in Michigan repeal Right-to-work

NiftyNiblick said:
Well, I happen not to give a fat fuck about any of those things in your follow-up questions,
and I think your responses to my answers were completely ridiculous,
so there's our answer.

We're destined to be on opposite sides of everything as a result of having completely un-overlapping values.

"three years severance pay upon separation [on top of pension--that was a big one]"
Is this like if the company fires you or something?
No, that's on top of your pension when you retire if your worked enough years. otherwise, it's prorated no matter how you leave. Union negotiated.

And a 401K is a sorry alternative to a completely company funded pension, don't you think? I do.

See, here's the thing.
If an essential industry cannot operate profitably while giving their employees all the things I mentioned plus other that I forget to mention (paid vacations, etc),
then that industry doesn't belong in the private sector. It needs to be nationalized so its employees are not exploited.
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Thus why I wouldn't join a union. They don't offer anything I want, and if forced into joining, I am going to make the union's leadership wish they'd never met me until they let me out and leave me the fuck alone.

Your last comment reveals that you are a hardcore Socialist who thinks government or centralized control of things is the solution to all problems. I would suggest you move to Italy or Greece where such fucked up thinking still prevails...
 
ExpressLane said:
The unions push for contracts that make plants non competitive with foreign manufacturers. That is one of the reasons many manufacturers eventually move overseas. Unions have failed to realize they are competing with a world wide labor market. The way to bring manufacturing back is to eliminate corporate taxes on products made in the US and to tax things not made in the US. If we didn't tax things made in the US it would encourage manufacturers around the world to build plants and employ Americans who would pay income taxes. It would make the American worker more competitive with the foreign worker. Right now if we tax GM n they just pass along the cost to the people who buy their cars. So you and I are paying their corporate taxes.
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Free-Traders Are Traitors

Lay on tariffs that eliminate the difference between foreign sweatshop wages and American manly wages. Let the outliers compete on quality, not price.

American companies should only move to the backward countries if they sell only within those countries. That is a new market, because the Third World races can't pay American prices. But they would be able to pay low prices based on their own people's low wages.
 
Unions might work today if instead of being tied to your job and the company, they were tied to the individual in the union and furthering their career. Some of the trade unions do this now and manage to keep membership. The pure labor unions don't and hemorrhage membership as a result.

What I am suggesting is the union makes growth of the individual part of membership. You move up in skills and abilities improving your worth to employers and your presence in the union is a statement about your ability to do whatever it is you do. The union isn't so much about keeping you in your current job or squeezing the employer for as much money as they can shake the employer down for. Rather, it's about ensuring you have the skills, knowledge, and ability to do more and better jobs over your lifetime even if it's for different employers.

Thus, professional and trade unions would have a place in the economy and be something worthwhile to join. On the other hand, traditional labor unions who focus solely on keeping you in your current job while working to rip of the employer for as much money as possible, would languish and die as worthless in the modern economy.

You can see some of the latter in action today. SEIU for example, tries to unionize fast food workers and baristas. These are dead end jobs with no true career potential other than for the most marginal workers. Anyone worth anything moves up and out of such loser jobs not tries to unionize and end up putting the employer out of business by demanding ever higher wages to do a simplistic job that a monkey could do.

Employers in the fast food industry are going to automate just as the auto industry, and other industries have, to avoid unions and paying workers too much for the value they produce if unions try to force the traditional model of more wages and benefits for the same work on them.
 
Flash said:
Or, maybe the employer should hire better employees who will create value for both the owner and employees.
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Sissyboy Yuppies Produced Feminazis and Gayists


For white-collar jobs, those economic bullies only hire no-talent Mamas' Boys who were willing to work without pay in schoolwork because they were afraid to grow up. After they graduate under this unnatural system, they don't have to be afraid to grow up anymore, because they will never grow up. Their wives will dominate them, so their sons will want to become women or fairies.
 
jbander said:
Simple, they want to go overseas fine , tell them where the door is and also tell them that they will not leave with the American market , these traitors do that, and they lose our market , where they became rich in the first place. Do they actually think they can still use our infrastructure and bring their profits someplace else. > Guess what these pigs will go nowhere, , Screw them
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Yes. Yes they do. Because they are encouraged to increase profits by offshoring labor.

trump had a chance to fulfill one of his campaign lies when he cut taxes on billionaires. He could have told corporations that manufacture here that they will pay no tax, while those who offshore pay higher taxes.

He didn't. He just made it so that most corporations pay nothing in taxes. Why would they bring jobs back here?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Unions might work today if instead of being tied to your job and the company, they were tied to the individual in the union and furthering their career. Some of the trade unions do this now and manage to keep membership. The pure labor unions don't and hemorrhage membership as a result.

What I am suggesting is the union makes growth of the individual part of membership. You move up in skills and abilities improving your worth to employers and your presence in the union is a statement about your ability to do whatever it is you do. The union isn't so much about keeping you in your current job or squeezing the employer for as much money as they can shake the employer down for. Rather, it's about ensuring you have the skills, knowledge, and ability to do more and better jobs over your lifetime even if it's for different employers.

Thus, professional and trade unions would have a place in the economy and be something worthwhile to join. On the other hand, traditional labor unions who focus solely on keeping you in your current job while working to rip of the employer for as much money as possible, would languish and die as worthless in the modern economy.

You can see some of the latter in action today. SEIU for example, tries to unionize fast food workers and baristas. These are dead end jobs with no true career potential other than for the most marginal workers. Anyone worth anything moves up and out of such loser jobs not tries to unionize and end up putting the employer out of business by demanding ever higher wages to do a simplistic job that a monkey could do.

Employers in the fast food industry are going to automate just as the auto industry, and other industries have, to avoid unions and paying workers too much for the value they produce if unions try to force the traditional model of more wages and benefits for the same work on them.
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A guild ( / ɡɪld / GILD) is an association of artisans and merchants who oversee the practice of their craft/trade in a particular territory. The earliest types of guild formed as organizations of tradespeople belonging to a professional association.
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The guild system of organization of artisans and the growing productivity and wealth of medieval cities resulted in their increasing independence from the rural feudal system.
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Feb 18, 2023guild, also spelled gild, an association of craftsmen or merchants formed for mutual aid and protection and for the furtherance of their professional interests. Guilds flourished in Europe between the 11th and 16th centuries and formed an important part of the economic and social fabric in that era. Types and functions
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Althea said:
Yes. Yes they do. Because they are encouraged to increase profits by offshoring labor.

trump had a chance to fulfill one of his campaign lies when he cut taxes on billionaires. He could have told corporations that manufacture here that they will pay no tax, while those who offshore pay higher taxes.

He didn't. He just made it so that most corporations pay nothing in taxes. Why would they bring jobs back here?
Click to expand...

Trump and Ivanka had their overpriced crap made in China and 3rd world countries. They showed how much they care about American workers. While in the Whitehouse, Ivanka secured many patents for her crapola. You can see what she plans on doing and where.
 
Althea said:
Yes. Yes they do. Because they are encouraged to increase profits by offshoring labor.

trump had a chance to fulfill one of his campaign lies when he cut taxes on billionaires. He could have told corporations that manufacture here that they will pay no tax, while those who offshore pay higher taxes.

He didn't. He just made it so that most corporations pay nothing in taxes. Why would they bring jobs back here?
Click to expand...

but he did do tariffs. that matters.

and you globalist dems keep saying they're bad.
 
Nordberg said:
Trump and Ivanka had their overpriced crap made in China and 3rd world countries. They showed how much they care about American workers. While in the Whitehouse, Ivanka secured many patents for her crapola. You can see what she plans on doing and where.
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he implemented tariffs despite his personal dealings.

its the right policy. its called separating your personal interests from policy.

it;s called not being corrupt. like insider trader pelosi.
 
ExpressLane said:
The unions push for contracts that make plants non competitive with foreign manufacturers. That is one of the reasons many manufacturers eventually move overseas. Unions have failed to realize they are competing with a world wide labor market. The way to bring manufacturing back is to eliminate corporate taxes on products made in the US and to tax things not made in the US. If we didn't tax things made in the US it would encourage manufacturers around the world to build plants and employ Americans who would pay income taxes. It would make the American worker more competitive with the foreign worker. Right now if we tax GM n they just pass along the cost to the people who buy their cars. So you and I are paying their corporate taxes.
Click to expand...
Yes. Taxation is the only tool that could be used to bring manufacturing back here. trump made sure that would never happen, and the log jam in Congress assures that it will never be changed.

But even under your scenario, what to you believe these workers should be paid if not union wages? Should they have pensions? Health insurance? Unfortunately, this nation has the only 'for profit' healthcare system in the world. And that won't change either.
 
Nordberg said:
Trump and Ivanka had their overpriced crap made in China and 3rd world countries. They showed how much they care about American workers. While in the Whitehouse, Ivanka secured many patents for her crapola. You can see what she plans on doing and where.
Click to expand...
Yup. Which is why nobody should have believed trump's campaign lies about taxing the wealthy and bringing jobs back here.

His crap is manufactured overseas, and his buildings were all built with Chinese steel.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Thus why I wouldn't join a union. They don't offer anything I want, and if forced into joining, I am going to make the union's leadership wish they'd never met me until they let me out and leave me the fuck alone.

Your last comment reveals that you are a hardcore Socialist who thinks government or centralized control of things is the solution to all problems. I would suggest you move to Italy or Greece where such fucked up thinking still prevails...
Click to expand...


That would never have been a problem where I worked, because even if you chose not to join the union, the dues would have been taken out of your paycheck and sent to the union anyway.
The company was contractually required to do that. Massachusetts is a civilized blue state, not a "right to work" one like those backwater sewers.

Unless, of course, you had a higher management job that wasn't represented.
They were cycled in and out like temps,
so as soon as a college kid from Wharton or someplace with potential was available,
they'd unload somebody who'd been around long enough to be making a little money and lots of vacation time.

Good luck to those chumps. Thank you, fuck you, and goodbye. Good luck in your future endeavors!!!
We were the ones in the rocking chair for thirty years.

I'm still in the rocking here at home, Mr. True Believer Capitalist!
So do the best you can with your beliefs because that's what I did.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Thus why I wouldn't join a union. They don't offer anything I want, and if forced into joining, I am going to make the union's leadership wish they'd never met me until they let me out and leave me the fuck alone.

Your last comment reveals that you are a hardcore Socialist who thinks government or centralized control of things is the solution to all problems. I would suggest you move to Italy or Greece where such fucked up thinking still prevails...
Click to expand...

Unions have gotten you your healthcare and benefits, including paid vacations and paid holidays. They fought for safer working conditions too. Non-union shops had to match them. That is why non-union people get them.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Thus why I wouldn't join a union. They don't offer anything I want, and if forced into joining, I am going to make the union's leadership wish they'd never met me until they let me out and leave me the fuck alone.

Your last comment reveals that you are a hardcore Socialist who thinks government or centralized control of things is the solution to all problems. I would suggest you move to Italy or Greece where such fucked up thinking still prevails...
Click to expand...

Unions have gotten you your healthcare and benefits, including paid vacations and paid holidays. They fought for safer working conditions too. Non-union shops had to match them. That is why non-union people get them.
 
Nordberg said:
Unions have gotten you your healthcare and benefits, including paid vacations and paid holidays. They fought for safer working conditions too. Non-union shops had to match them. That is why non-union people get them.
Click to expand...

Unions did NONE of that. Health insurance was born out of WW 2 wage and price controls as an incentive to hire when companies couldn't pay higher wages. Paid vacation is a function of the same thing. Paid holidays came about because of government setting holidays. Safer working conditions are a mostly Republican thing. Nixon instituted OSHA and MSHA Unions didn't do shit towards those things.
 
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