Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in 'Rust' movie set shooting

T. A. Gardner said:
The arms master on the set loaded the firearm for the shoot. It was handed to an assistant director who didn't bother to check the status of the firearm and assumed it was a 'cold gun' that is not loaded with any sort of live ammunition. The assistant director handed it to Baldwin and told him it was a 'cold gun.' Baldwin didn't bother to check the status of the gun either.
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Gardner is right. Hidden in that statement should have been the final red flag, but it was ignored. The assistant director should not be handing the gun to an actor, and should not be saying if the gun is loaded or not. It must be an armorer handing the gun off. No one should be handling the gun, but the armorers and under very limited circumstances the actors.

The solution is not having other people do the armorer's job. That clearly leads to untrained people doing the job. The solution is for the armorer to do her job.

I will blame Baldwin for one thing. When he saw the assistant director hand him the gun, he should have said stop everything, why didn't the armorer hand me the gun. As an old actor, he knew how sets worked well enough to know that assistant directors are different from armorers.

The problem here is you are looking for actors to be firearm safety experts. Not only are they not, we do not want them to even try. They will just mess up. Nor are assistant directors firearm safety experts. Again, they will mess up. What next, are you going to argue that Baldwin should have been a doctor, and provided medical treatment. It would be better if Baldwin gets out of the way, and allows real medical staff to provide treatment.

You would have a stronger argument if you argued Baldwin should have realized that the safety process was not being followed. Rather than claiming to be a firearm safety expert, Baldwin should have realized he was not handed a gun by a firearm safety expert...

The problem is that is not a criminal negligent mistake, so no crime.
 
Walt said:
I will blame Baldwin for one thing. When he saw the assistant director hand him the gun, he should have said stop everything, why didn't the armorer hand me the gun. As an old actor, he knew how sets worked well enough to know that assistant directors are different from armorers.
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BINGO


Baldwin should have checked the gun for that very reason..so he was negligent
 
volsrock said:
Starting a car would not kill someone and NO REASON AT ALL for someone to think it would, pointing and pulling the trigger on a gun will ....person pulling that trigger should know that
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If someone is sleeping under your car, you start it and drive, you will probably kill them. There is no reason to think it would, but in this hypothetical it did. It is definitely a homicide, someone died, but it is an involuntary homicide, so not a crime.

Pulling a trigger on a fake, or unloaded gun will not kill someone.
 
Walt said:
If someone is sleeping under your car, you start it and drive, you will probably kill them. There is no reason to think it would, but in this hypothetical it did. It is definitely a homicide, someone died, but it is an involuntary homicide, so not a crime.

Pulling a trigger on a fake, or unloaded gun will not kill someone.
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Did the armorer hand him the gun?

yes or no
 
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volsrock said:
Did the armorer hand him the gun?
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No, she was not even around, she was doing her side job. Remember that this was a very low budget set, pay was low. That she was allowed to do this was reckless. Plus it was very iffy that she was qualified for the armorers job in the first place, yes her dad is a famous gun expert, but she is not her dad.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
No, she was not even around, she was doing her side job. Remember that this was a very low budget set, pay was low. That she was allowed to do this was reckless. Plus it was very iffy that she was qualified for the armorers job in the first place, yes her dad is a famous gun expert, but she is not her dad.
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Than Baldwin was negligent by accepting the gun from someone other than the armorer and pulling the trigger
 
It is amazing the Hatred still Expressed towards Baldwin, most exceptionally after he Mocked Trump on SNL!

Accidents do happen in Movie Making. Overall, at least 47 fatalities have occurred among 250 film production accidents since 1990, according to data reported to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which tracks serious workplace accidents in the United States that have been reported to the agency.

And although there have been many lawsuits, to my knowledge, this is the very first to try anyone for murder or criminal negligence for an accidental death on a Movie set.

Not saying I agree with the charges or not, or that the decision was political in any way, JUST POINTING IT OUT- that this is a first.

I do know this, EVERYONE IS INNOCENT UNTIL FOUND GUILTY, and that hasn't happened yet.

And I do know this- Baldwin did not intentionally shoot the actress- nor was he the one that loaded the weapon.

It is just interesting to hear the Guilty verdicts coming in here, that have already judged Baldwin and ready for him to hang- and from the USUAL Typical Trumpsters! :thinking:

That's all I got!
 
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volsrock said:
Than Baldwin is negligent by accepting the gun from someone other than the armorer and pulling the trigger
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I say that his negligence stems from the fact that this movie was his baby from start to finish, and thus even if he is not legally responsible for the reckless dangerous set he is morally responsible.

Also the assistant director is the first officer of safety on set, he outranked the armorer, and he handed the gun to Baldwin....but notice how he got off pleading to a minor charge.
 
ExpressLane said:
Baldwin hired an inexperienced armorer to save money. Weapons had already been discharged on the set at least once before. It was Baldwin's responsibility as producer to make sure she was competent and was doing her job. Baldwin had set a deadly situation in motion.Baldwin is certainly at fault also. People had already left the set over safety concerns a few days before this shooting.
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More than inexperienced. Her father was an experienced armor and she worked with him. She was not picked off the street. She knew the business. She made a mistake. The handler gave Balwin the gun and declared it "cold".
 
guno said:
Alec Baldwin will be charged in the fatal on-set shooting of "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.
The actor and armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed each face two counts of involuntary manslaughter.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...A16wE0H?cvid=017e9d1195374962b52d260bf7273f6e
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No way will he be convicted. Too much responsibility belongs to whomever gave him the "non-lethal" prop gun. It's a similar situation to what happened to Brandon Lee. No one was convicted.
 
volsrock said:
Did the armorer hand him the gun?

yes or no
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That might get you civil negligence, but not criminal negligence. Baldwin's obvious defense is that he did not notice the assistant director handed him the gun.

But you are coming closer to something legally significant.
 
Walt said:
Involuntary homicide is not a crime. There must be some sort of voluntary action to make it a murder or manslaughter. For instance, if you start your car, not knowing that someone is sleeping under your car, and you kill the person sleeping under the car, you definitely committed a homicide by starting the car, but did not commit a criminal act. That would be an involuntary homicide.

Exact laws differ from state to state, so someone is going to respond it is different in such and such state, and they will be right... BUT, the general frame work is:
Murder is when you intended to kill the victim with full culpability.
Manslaughter is when you did not intend to kill or had some other form of extremely diminished culpability, but you did intend to harm the victim, or do a clear criminal act.
Voluntary manslaughter is when you intended to hurt the victim, but accidentally went too far and killed the victim.
Involuntary manslaughter is when you did not intend to hurt the victim, but led to the death through a criminal act.
Constructive [voluntary or involuntary] manslaughter is when you actually acted.
Criminally negligent [voluntary or involuntary] is when failed to act, and that was the crime.

AND FINALLY:
Involuntary homicide is when you caused a death, like starting your car, but had no criminal intent, like not knowing someone was sleeping under your car.
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The DA disagrees or charges wouldn't have been filed
 
Nordberg said:
More than inexperienced. Her father was an experienced armor and she worked with him. She was not picked off the street. She knew the business. She made a mistake. The handler gave Balwin the gun and declared it "cold".
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We dont know that she knew what she was doing. She clearly was dumb enough to take a side job to make more money, which is why she was not there, which is why she is in so much trouble. That she cared more about her money than doing the armorer's job well is a big problem for her.
 
volsrock said:
Than Baldwin was negligent by accepting the gun from someone other than the armorer and pulling the trigger
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Why wasn't the actor who shot and killed Brandon Lee convicted? There will be a civil suit in Baldwin's case and the victims' families will get well-deserved settlements. There will be no criminal conviction. I'll bet you if you want.
 
Apollyon 2023 said:
Maybe so,but charges are filed so it has to legally play out.
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Filed because of pressure to hold someone accountable or filed because charges are legally justified?

I am not at all sure....and also charges are not filed yet, they have announced the intent to file charges...which I dont like....It feels like a trial balloon.
 
volsrock said:
Baldwin should have checked the gun for that very reason..so he was negligent
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No, you lost it again. If someone pretends to be an expert, you do not pretend to be an expert too. If the assistant director pretended to be a doctor, the solution is not for Baldwin to pretend to be a doctor too.

The solution to workplace safety falling apart is a complete shutdown as fast as safely possible. Then having the real expert reset everything, and finally to progress. Throw into that either retraining or firing everyone who messed up.

If the last red flag had been noticed, what should have happened was: Baldwin announce that the assistant director just handed him a gun. The gun be immediately laid down, and the armorer be gotten to store the gun safely. Then the armorer get retraining to make sure it never happens again, or she just gets fired. [This step is a problem for reasons I will state later.]. Finally every gun is checked multiple times by the armorers(plural). Only then should standard work start again with the armorer handing the gun to the actor.

There is no standard training for the armorers, so no way to retrain them. The insurance companies, and management companies almost always believe the armorers above anyone else on safety, so it is difficult to fire them.
 
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