Tesla Semi-truck stops would consume the electricity of a small town

[LurchAddams]

.
This ought not to come as a surprise to anyone conversant with the technology.

Tesla Semi truck stops would consume the electricity of small town USA as launch event scheduled for December 1

A utility company has run the numbers and warns that the US grid can't provide the charging power for all the upcoming electric trucks like the Tesla Semi that will be released on December 1. The electrification of a typical gas station would demand the amount needed for a sports stadium, while a regular truck stop would need the electricity of a small town.

A surge in EV charging demand, especially of the megawatt kind required for electric trucks like the Tesla Semi, would overwhelm the US grid, warns utility company National Grid Plc. Their numbers show that the electrification of just one regular gas station would put a strain on the grid equivalent to that of a sports stadium in 2030.

A common truck stop full of Tesla Semis or similar electric rigs, on the other hand, will have the electricity consumption of a small US town by 2035, while a highway plaza electric truck and car stop will need the power of an industrial plant by 2045.

The issue is not with the amount needed, as even in the worst-case scenario with rapid passenger and freight vehicle electrification, the global electricity demand would only be up 15% by 2040, but rather the speed and output that the charge needs to be delivered with.

The Tesla Semi has a 82,000 lbs (37,195 kg) Gross Weight which it can truck along for up to 500 miles (804 km) on a charge, and its up to 1MWh battery estimate can recover 70% of its capacity in 30 minutes of charging. Tesla wants to solve the grid load problem by topping up the Semi at exclusive Megacharger stations that will be powered by solar energy. One such Megacharger, for instance, is built at the Modesto factory of the Semi's first customer - Pepsi - and Tesla will be holding a dedicated launch event to celebrate the first Semi truck deliveries there on December 1.

Just like its Superchargers and newfangled North American Charging Standard, though, Tesla's Semi truck Megachargers will also have a competitor in the face of the 3.75MW Megawatt Charging Standard (MCS) for heavy-duty electric vehicles whose documentation is expected to be codified by the respective certification bodies in 2024.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla...-event-scheduled-for-December-1.668564.0.html

Can they supply electricity to a small town? They could all be backup power sources during a blackout. A 737's APU can power a small town.

 

[LurchAddams]

I have been reading that electric trucks are idiotic and that they simply will not work...which is very interesting in light of all of the electric trucks corporations have pledged to buy, and often already ordered.

Getting ahead of their skis?

They're already in use all over Europe. You always prove how ignorant you are while bragging about your "education".

https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/n...eads-the-electric-truck-market-in-europe.html

"Statistics from the market analysis group IHS Markit show that during 2021 a total of 346 electric trucks (≥16 tonnes) were registered in Europe – an increase of 193% from 2020. Volvo Trucks has the largest market share at 42%. The countries in Europe with the most electric trucks registered (≥16 tonnes) are Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and The Netherlands.*


“We are determined to drive the electric truck revolution and our market leading position in Europe is proof that we are doing just that. Even if volumes are still low, we see rapidly growing interest, both in Europe, North America and in other parts of the world. In 2021 we have taken orders, including letters of intent to buy, for more than 1,100 trucks in over 20 countries. I’m convinced it’s becoming a key competitive advantage to offer electric, zero emission transports,” says Roger Alm, President of Volvo Trucks."

Statistics from the market analysis group IHS Markit show that during 2021 a total of 346 electric trucks (≥16 tonnes) were registered in Europe – an increase of 193% from 2020. Volvo Trucks has the largest market share at 42%. The countries in Europe with the most electric trucks registered (≥16 tonnes) are Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and The Netherlands.*

 

[LurchAddams]

Hubris tends to be the killer of civilizations.

And yet you're still alive.

 

[Celticguy]

I'll help you. Primavera wants you to believe the truck stops will consume electricity the equivalent of a small city IMMEDIATELY in Dec. That is wrong. The company warned that it will occur on or around 2035. By then the grids will be fully upgraded.

Tesla has been selling battery cars since 2017 and I keep reading about how our power grid cannot keep up with demand.

You are quite naïve to think that some sort of massive new expansion of the power grid will occur.

 

[AProudLefty]

Tesla has been selling battery cars since 2017 and I keep reading about how our power grid cannot keep up with demand.

You are quite naïve to think that some sort of massive new expansion of the power grid will occur.

Again, I am trying to explain to you that Primavera omitted a fact and wanted you to believe that will strain the grid immediately next month. The fact of the matter is that the company warned about the increasing strain up to 2035, unless the grilds are being upgraded, which they will be.

 

[cancel2 2022]

Tesla has been selling battery cars since 2017 and I keep reading about how our power grid cannot keep up with demand.

You are quite naïve to think that some sort of massive new expansion of the power grid will occur.

Where did I say that, ffs?

 

[AProudLefty]

Where did I say that, ffs?

He was replying to me. LOL.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Bill Nye is a licensed engineer. He makes an entertaining educational TV show called Bill Nye the Science Guy. I guess he is a "science guy", in that he presents science to children.

Bill Nye was at one time a mechanical engineer with Boeing. He was never "licensed" as he was never a professional engineer. He make entertaining--maybe--often pseudo-scientific TV shows. Not everything he presents on science on those shows is accurate, and often it is wildly inaccurate.

 

[Into the Night]

What percent of the populace does our bankrupt capitalist system create wealth for? And how much of it stays in the area where it was created? No system works unless you hold the crooks accountable.

Capitalism isn't bankruptcy. Capitalism is the only economic system that creates wealth. Your question is irrelevant. Capitalism is not a crime. It is an economic system. Capitalism is the voluntary production of products and services that are voluntarily sold for an agreed upon price. The wealth spreads to all the buyers.

 

[AProudLefty]

Bill Nye was at one time a mechanical engineer with Boeing. He was never "licensed" as he was never a professional engineer. He make entertaining--maybe--often pseudo-scientific TV shows. Not everything he presents on science on those shows is accurate, and often it is wildly inaccurate.

So you lied about their claim he was a certified scientist. I am glad you admit it.

 

[Into the Night]

Big deal, they typically require a small 1.5-2.0 kilowatt-hours battery to smooth the output from the fuel cell!!

The fuel cell output does not need 'smoothing'. It puts out direct current. You are correct that the battery is used as a ballast, and you are correct that the battery need not be as large as an EV, but you still need the lithium and cobalt to make the batteries, and they are still subject to the same corrosion problems and resulting fires.

In addition, handling hydrogen fuel has many problems. First the hydrogen must be generated. That requires electricity, and lots of it. It requires more energy than you get by using the hydrogen in a car.
The hydrogen must be compressed (most stations compress it to 3000psi or more). That takes energy.

Pumping high pressure gas into a low pressure tank causes the fuel nozzle to freeze to the car. It often takes 15-30 minutes for it to thaw enough to release the nozzle after fueling. This is a problem caused by the ideal gas law.
Thus, fueling hydrogen cars takes a long time...almost as long as charging an electric car at a high current charging station. The nozzle connection must be gas tight, requiring more complicated fitting to the car.

Fueling a gasoline car takes 3-5 minutes.

Spills and leaks are another problem. Gasoline spills and leaks are noticeable. Hydrogen gas leaks are not. The gas is invisible. ANY leak is a serious event, possibly causing an explosion.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

So you lied about their claim he was a certified scientist. I am glad you admit it.

After attending the private Sidwell Friends School, Nye enrolled at Cornell University, where he studied mechanical engineering. Upon earning his Bachelor of Science degree, Nye went on to begin his career at The Boeing Company in Seattle, where he would live for many years. Nye developed a hydraulic pressure resonance suppressor that is still used in the Boeing 747.
https://www.biography.com/personality/bill-nye

He's neither a "certified scientist" whatever that is, nor is he a "licensed engineer" (aka Professional Engineer). As I stated, he was trained as a mechanical engineer, not a scientist. So the statement in the meme is accurate, he plays the role of a scientist on television.

 

[AProudLefty]

After attending the private Sidwell Friends School, Nye enrolled at Cornell University, where he studied mechanical engineering. Upon earning his Bachelor of Science degree, Nye went on to begin his career at The Boeing Company in Seattle, where he would live for many years. Nye developed a hydraulic pressure resonance suppressor that is still used in the Boeing 747.
https://www.biography.com/personality/bill-nye

He's neither a "certified scientist" whatever that is, nor is he a "licensed engineer" (aka Professional Engineer).

Correct. So why did you make up a false claim that they claimed he was a certified scientist? I have never heard of anyone claiming he was a certified scientist like Neil deGrasse Tyson.

 

[Into the Night]

Welcome to the real world. In the real world, we spend 60% of our energy on moving things, 30% on heating/cooling things, and 10% on everything else. So yes, our trucks take up a lot of energy. This is nothing new.



The great thing about electricity is it is completely source neutral. You can hook up windmills, or even diesel generators.

Not enough electricity, and not a big enough transmission line system to handle the load. Trucks have to drive long distances. Charging them will take too long.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Correct. So why did you make up a false claim that they claimed he was a certified scientist? I have never heard of anyone claiming he was a certified scientist like Neil deGrasse Tyson.

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I never stated or used the term "certified scientist" anywhere in this thread, nor did I respond to a post other than yours about the term "certified scientist."

 

[Into the Night]

Well, let's start with who National Grid is, and who they are not. They are a British company that is responsible for the downstream of the English and Wales national grid. To diversify, they have invested in some power generation in the USA, but they are not responsible for our national grid, and in fact we do not have a national grid. That is right, there is no single US grid. It does not exist, so their claims about it are pure fantasy.

But our multiple grids are not able to handle an all electric transportation system... Much like our roads were not able to handle a trucking network 80 years ago. We modernized them, and now we do just fine. We could modernize our electrical grid...

Or not. Large generators will usually be more efficient than small mobile engines, and it is easier to capture pollution if you do not have to worry about moving the engine... Not to mention that electric motors turn off when not needed, saving from idling. You can literally burn all the diesel you would have burned in the trucks in the station, and generate electricity which will be more efficient and less polluting.

The nice part about electricity is it is source neutral. I do not know, nor care what the source of the electricity lighting my house is.

There is no national grid in the United States.

 

[AProudLefty]

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I never stated or used the term "certified scientist" anywhere in this thread, nor did I respond to a post other than yours about the term "certified scientist."

This is the meme you posted.

The meme assumes that plenty of people believe that he is a real scientist, or a "certificated scientist".

I will give you a leeway for not realizing what the meme is implying and that it's claim is a lie.

 

[Into the Night]

Specious waffle as usual, there's no end to your bullshit. If you really think that National Grid are not qualified to assess the situation then you're an even more of a fool than I'd already imagined.

It really doesn't matter.

Transmission lines are rated for the amount of power they can carry. If demand exceeds that, transmission lines must be paralleled or even new ones must be constructed. Power generators are also rated for a maximum load. If demand exceeds that, more power generates will need to be installed.

Watts are watts. There is no getting around this. Requiring all cars and trucks to be EV will far exceed the available power we can generate or transmit.

That means a lot of off road work and aerial work. It is not practical to use an EV to construct this infrastructure. Electric aircraft (and especially helicopters!) can't carry the weight of the battery packs needed to fly and carry a payload as an EV.

Then there is, of course, the ever shrinking supply of lithium and cobalt, required to manufacture all those batteries, plus the cost of shipping these bulk materials around. You think the price of an EV is high now?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Not enough electricity, and not a big enough transmission line system to handle the load. Trucks have to drive long distances. Charging them will take too long.

It also makes long-haul, team, trucking impossible to do. Totally impossible to do.

Long-haul, team truckers operate in twos or threes. They have trucks with larger fuel tanks installed along with the camper cab. What they do is one driver drives to their legal hour limit, then the next takes over while the one coming off shift relaxes and sleeps. They drive continuously without stopping. A common long-haul route is ports in LA California to ports in Jacksonville Florida LAX-JAX. They drive the entire distance in roughly two days. Take a day off while loading, then do the reverse route. Many teams are husband - wife and they own the truck they're using.

You cannot do that in a battery powered truck.

https://www.lily.com/team-drivers/t...roblem-solving, and working as part of a team.

 

[Into the Night]

The USA does not have a national grid.

Maybe we need one. You should suggest it as we improve our grids.

None needed.